Revisiting and Revitalizing the Chaos Cult Marines

[grimmas]

Well the Night Lords 10th conpany doesn't exactly help my argument as although they are all Veterans of the Heresy they did pretty much get themselves all killed.😳

[Anggul]

My take on it (most people seem to have one):


Army special rules:

Champion of Chaos: Characters that aren't independent don't have to issue a challenge when an enemy independent character could accept, and don't have to accept challenges issued by them. (Stops squad leaders from having a go at captains, warbosses etc.)

Shattered loyalties: Immune to fear. Only take panic checks at 50% casualties. Not removed by sweeping advance, instead take saves equal to number combat was lost by. Does not apply to Fearless models. (Not quite Know no Fear, not quite Fearless, similar to the old 'No Retreat!' rules for fearless units losing combat. It reduces morale effects on them because they're astartes while still retaining their self-serving nature.)

Chaos boon table:
Dark apotheosis: Retain chaos rewards and artefacts


Monsters of the gods options:

Khorne berserkers:
Units with mark of Khorne may purchase +1WS, furious charge and fearless for 3pts per model (15pts for independent characters) but models in power armour may only purchase melee, pistol and assault weapons and must exchange bolters for (or purchase additional) CCWs if possible.


Tzeentchian covens and the Thousand Sons:
Chaos space marine units with mark of Tzeentch may purchase slow and purposeful, fearless and aura of dark glory for 3pts per model but lose access to any additional options with the exception of more squad members. Aspiring Champions must instead purchase psyker (mastery level 1), force weapon and aura of dark glory for 40pts, may not purchase gifts of mutation and re-roll results of X (haven't bothered to go through and pick out the ones that involve physical mutation yet) on the chaos boon table. (To represent that the Rubric stopped mutation)

Independent characters, Chosen and Terminator units with mark of Tzeentch may purchase psyker if IC, brotherhood of sorcerers if squad (mastery level 1) for 30pts. (These units clearly can't be automata so they must be psykers.)

Units with mark of Tzeentch may purchase inferno bolts for 2pts per bolter/combi-bolter, 5pts per heavy bolter. Inferno bolts grant +1S to bolt weapons. (More generally useful than AP3)


Plague marines:
Units with mark of Nurgle may purchase feel no pain and fearless for 4pts per model (15pts for independent characters) but have -1 initiative. If they do, models in power armour may then replace CCW with plague knives for 3pts and units may purchase blight grenades for 1pt per model.


Noise marines:
Units with mark of Slaanesh may purchase fearless for 1pt per model (5pts for independent characters). Doing so grants them the following options (models that are already fearless do not require this initial purchase):

Characters may purchase a doom siren for 15pts.

Any model may exchange their bolter or combi-bolter for a sonic blaster for 3pts.

Any model with access to a heavy weapon may purchase a blastmaster for 30pts.




The idea of these is that you can upgrade any suitable units to 'cult' status rather than being restricted to basic chaos marines. It's stupid that (for example) you can have plague marines in power armour with all of the associated rules, but when they pick up heavy weapons to be havocs, graduate to chosen, terminators or even become Lords, they suddenly lose their FnP, fearless and Nurgle-y wargear.

[Katharon]

The idea of these is that you can upgrade any suitable units to 'cult' status rather than being restricted to basic chaos marines. It's stupid that (for example) you can have plague marines in power armour with all of the associated rules, but when they pick up heavy weapons to be havocs, graduate to chosen, terminators or even become Lords, they suddenly lose their FnP, fearless and Nurgle-y wargear.

Not sure I'm fully understanding what you're saying, but it seems to be: in Plague Marine CADs, various unit roles (Havocs, Chosen, etc) should be able to be filled by literal Plague Marines and not just normal renegade or non-legion Chaos Space Marines that happen to have the MoN.

Am I getting that right?

[Anggul]

Not sure I'm fully understanding what you're saying, but it seems to be: in Plague Marine CADs, various unit roles (Havocs, Chosen, etc) should be able to be filled by literal Plague Marines and not just normal renegade or non-legion Chaos Space Marines that happen to have the MoN.

Am I getting that right?

Exactly. A havoc is just a chaos marine with a heavy weapon hanging out with more of the same. If a plague marine can have a heavy weapon, you should be able to have a squad of them as havocs. As another example, a noise marine could acquire a suit of terminator armour, but currently that makes them throw away their sonic weapons and stop being fearless. I feel most sorry for nurgle chaos lords, some of their troops are blessed by Nurgle in a multitude of ways while they're just stuck with +1T.


Hence a unit that has purchased (for example) mark of Khorne can make a further purchase which makes them berserkers with all of the associated benefits (+1WS, furious charge and fearless) and penalties (not allowed to take weapons that can't be fired to full effect on the move and fearless). In the same way a unit that has purchased mark of Nurgle can be further progressed to plague marines with the benefits (FnP, fearless and access to plague knives and blight grenades) but also the downside (-1 initiative and fearless). Again the same for those with the mark of Slaanesh being able to progress to noise marines, gaining fearless and access to sonic weapons in addition to the usual selection of weapons. I wonder if perhaps noise marines should have more rules, pertaining to their senses. Maybe they're more susceptible to blind but have night vision and acute senses.


Tzeentch is a special case which splits. Either they're non-psyker Thousand Sons and thus are magical dust and have the rules for it, or they're a coven of sorcerers/independent sorcerer so weren't turned to dust (or are just any Tzeentchian group of sorcerers). I made it so Lords could be level 1 psykers, so Tzeentchian Lords can display sorcerous powers but only a dedicated sorcerer can progress past that.


It's worth pointing out that any chaos marine (whether they're an ancient veteran of the Long War or a comparatively fresh-faced renegade) can become a berserker, noise marine or plague marine so there's no requirement to purchase VotLW. It's only the rubric marines which are legion-specific and that's only the Thousand Sons. I left out VotLW on Thousand Sons because a mindless automaton doesn't feel hate.



I've never even played chaos marines, but I feel really sorry for the people who do and I like coming up with ways to sort out rules to make them fluffy and balanced.

[Katharon]

So by the sounds of it, we should be adding a little something extra...

*goes to edit the front OP*


EDIT: I basically did what you said, to a degree. I added in the unit profile name their respective legions, ie World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, and Thousand Sons was already there. In a normal CSM book, they would act as true elites.

Other than that, it would require the creation of actual Legion-based codicies. Codex: World Eaters, Codex: Death Guard, Codex: Emperor's Children, etc.