Armored shield formation

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

A while back, I purchased the "Start Collecting..." Imperial Guard set. For $85 US you get a Leman Russ, a cadian squad, a cadian heavy weapons team, and a commissar. Great deal, love it. The formation is pretty cool, too.

But...

for a long time, Battlescribe did not have the formation listed under Imperial Guard. So I would create the formation as an Allied Detachment, with a Lord Commissar, a Veterans Squad, and a Leman Russ. Does that fulfill the requirements of the formation? It says the formation includes:

1 Officio Prefectus Commissar
1 Infantry Squad
1 Leman Russ

It's clear that the Leman Russ can be any variant, which is cool. But can the infantry squad be veterans, or do they have to be normal infantry? Can the commissar be a Lord Commissar, or does he have to be the 1 wound commissar attached to a normal infantry squad? Could you make this formation with a Leman Russ, a Veterans squad, and a commissar attached to the Veterans?

I only ask because I'm curious. No one in my gaming group frankly cares at all how I make the formation. It's a good formation, but not game-breaking, and even when I load out the veterans with plasma and grenade launchers, it doesn't make that much difference.

So what does everyone else think?

[Charistoph]

A while back, I purchased the "Start Collecting..." Imperial Guard set. For $85 US you get a Leman Russ, a cadian squad, a cadian heavy weapons team, and a commissar. Great deal, love it. The formation is pretty cool, too.

But...

for a long time, Battlescribe did not have the formation listed under Imperial Guard. So I would create the formation as an Allied Detachment, with a Lord Commissar, a Veterans Squad, and a Leman Russ. Does that fulfill the requirements of the formation? It says the formation includes:

1 Officio Prefectus Commissar
1 Infantry Squad
1 Leman Russ

It's clear that the Leman Russ can be any variant, which is cool. But can the infantry squad be veterans, or do they have to be normal infantry? Can the commissar be a Lord Commissar, or does he have to be the 1 wound commissar attached to a normal infantry squad? Could you make this formation with a Leman Russ, a Veterans squad, and a commissar attached to the Veterans?

I only ask because I'm curious. No one in my gaming group frankly cares at all how I make the formation. It's a good formation, but not game-breaking, and even when I load out the veterans with plasma and grenade launchers, it doesn't make that much difference.

So what does everyone else think?

The Infantry Squad is not a Veterans Squad. The Infantry Squad is one of the units which make up the Infantry Platoon.

I am not familiar with the Officio Prefectus Commissar, but since the Lord is not mentioned, I would not use the actual Lord profile. If it was the Tempestus Commissar, it could upgrade to a Lord, but the AM Commissar does not have that option. Unless one of the campaign books that was recently released has him, of course.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Lord Commissars and Commissars are different entries with different options and stats, etc.

[Reldane]

The Infantry Squad is not a Veterans Squad. The Infantry Squad is one of the units which make up the Infantry Platoon.

There is and never has been a Veteran unit. it is common for the infantry squad kit to be used for Veterans, however it is lacking in the special weapons you would generally want to be equipping Vets with.

equally the Leman rus battle tank kit (inc) might not come with the parts needed for the Demolisher, Punisher and Executioner as they are part of the leman rus demolisher kit.

however all that aside: if you have the rules from the start collecting set, you can run them as that, equally they can easily be an allied detachment as you describe without any bending of the rules.

[CoffeeGrunt]

There is and never has been a Veteran unit. it is common for the infantry squad kit to be used for Veterans, however it is lacking in the special weapons you would generally want to be equipping Vets with.

Veterans are a separate unit entry in a separate slot. Therefore, there is a Veteran unit, they just don't have dedicated models.

[Charistoph]

There is and never has been a Veteran unit. it is common for the infantry squad kit to be used for Veterans, however it is lacking in the special weapons you would generally want to be equipping Vets with.

Model-wise, correct. Army List Entries, however, are a different story. You CAN use those models to be Veterans, yes, and use them all for an AD, BUT, they would not be Veterans in this Formation.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

Huh. I thought "infantry" was a descriptor since it isn't capitalized, not a specific unit. Especially since you can't actually field a single Infantry Squad. Since you can field a single Veteran squad, and they are classified as "infantry" that seemed to fit the bill, although the Officio Prefectus Commissar is capitalized, so clearly GW has a specific model in mind for that requirement.

I guess house rules will be called for if I want to keep doing things my way.

[Charistoph]

Huh. I thought "infantry" was a descriptor since it isn't capitalized, not a specific unit. Especially since you can't actually field a single Infantry Squad. Since you can field a single Veteran squad, and they are classified as "infantry" that seemed to fit the bill, although the Officio Prefectus Commissar is capitalized, so clearly GW has a specific model in mind for that requirement.

I guess house rules will be called for if I want to keep doing things my way.

Where does it state you cannot actually field a single Infantry Squad?

P.S. Does it not have it's own Army List Entry? Does it state anywhere that it may only be taken as part of an Infantry Platoon?

After numerous discussions on this, I can tell you that there is nothing written, neither in legend nor script, that states that any of the Squads that make up an Infantry Platoon cannot be taken independently.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

Hmm, that's an interesting take on things. Granted I do not have the current version of the Imperial Guard Codex (the one called Astra Militarum), but I do have the 5th or so edition (paperback) codex. It says that

An Infantry Platoon (note: Infantry and Platoon are both capitalized) consists of a Command Squad... and from 2 to 5 Infantry squads.

Each Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the Force Organization chart...

As such, I always interpreted that to mean that, no, you may not field a single Infantry squad. In fact, there is no mention of any squad that can be fielded by itself other than Veterans and Armored Fist squads. Since those are both of the "infantry" type, I figured that the formation was intended to give the player a fairly high-quality unit with Veterans combined with the commissar and the tank.

[CoffeeGrunt]

A lot of Formations allow you to field parts of a Platoon. For example, there's one this two squads of Bullgryns and a Platoon Command Squad, and another which is just a craptonne of Infantry Squads.

You're right that when building a list normally, you need to build the Platoon as-per the Platoon structure, though said structure is a little different in the more recent Codex. In Formations, however, you may simply field the specific units mentioned.