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Thread: Rogue One

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    It's like a weird trend of killing the adults outright or just having them leave.
    It's incredibly common in fantasy / adventure stories because if a person has a family they have people to care about which, as we see with Luke, only serves to tie them down. Kill off the parental figures and suddenly they're free to go off on a damn fool crusade without having to listen to anyone any more.

    And as a bonus they might even get some angsty mourning out of it (if they're male - women like Leia get to comfort heroes like Luke over the death of a guy he met like two days ago rather than have her be bothered with all that torture she went through before watching her family, friends and entire planet obliterated).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychosplodge View Post
    Dunno how it stands now but don't forget Solo too - he was practically Oliver Bloody Twist.
    Everybody's parents are dead or gone. Maybe that's why Disney was so interested in buying Star Wars. It fits right in!

    Also, it makes sense for the Star Wars universe to be full of angry orphans. The Empire kills loads of people, and many of them are parents. Hence, there are a bunch of orphans that want to kill the Empire right back.
    There is one direction: FORWARD!

  3. #23

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    lols but previously he became an imperial officer, it was only cause he was raised by a wookie that he took exception to their treatment as slaves earned a dishonourable discharge and a furry shadow.

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychosplodge View Post
    lols but previously he became an imperial officer, it was only cause he was raised by a wookie that he took exception to their treatment as slaves earned a dishonourable discharge and a furry shadow.
    Ain't nobody wants to be shadowed by a Furry for the rest of their life. I don't even want it for five minutes. The weirdoes.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    women like Leia get to comfort heroes like Luke over the death of a guy he met like two days ago rather than have her be bothered with all that torture she went through before watching her family, friends and entire planet obliterated).
    Well, you could look at it as her being strong enough to fall apart over something like that when there's huge stakes at play, and rather use it as something to give her the resolve to make sure the Rebellion got the plans and took out that weapon. It's also possible said destruction of Alderaan gave her the resolve to become more and more of a leader, until finally she was the only one with the guts to continue leading the fight against evil (in this case the First Order), knowing what could result from letting lunatics roam free. She was comforting Luke at the time because she was the only one capable of taking care of this farm boy who was in way over his head. Who else would he have to help him? The smuggler who didn't really care that much about how other people felt and only developed a conscience at the last second? The droids? The Wookie he couldn't understand? She's compassionate enough to comfort someone else despite the pain she's holding back (that they likely aren't recognizing she'd be feeling anyway), then goes on to help lead the defense against and destruction of the weapon that destroyed her planet.

    Luke tried to become a leader and ended up having all his students slaughtered by his own nephew who he couldn't reach better than some random guy (Snoke), then went off to mope and hide from the galaxy. Leia became the leader of the galaxy's fighting forces that are actually trying to protect lives and stop the rise of a new Empire.

    Also... it's very likely if she became a whiny sniveling ball of self-pity herself, people would take issue with the portrayal of a woman being so weak she falls apart and gets all emotional rather than fighting back. When her being strong and resolved gets them criticized, can't help but think they're "damned if they do or don't" in that situation.

  6. #26
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    Hopefully we can talk about awesome new star wars film in this thread and inappropriate portrayal of female characters in the feminism thread.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    Luke's adoptive parents (aunt and uncle, really) were killed by the Empire (granted, he was grown at the time)
    Well, the classic Troops - which I have finally found online after a friend borrowed my copy and then accidentally broke it - tells a somewhat different story

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc5IqD0QibY
    Last edited by JamesP; 04-08-2016 at 10:26 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    Well, you could look at it as...
    We could, but the point is it is never acknowledged at all in the films what she went through. Like, ever. I mean Luke mourns Owen and Beru, Obi-wan, even a moment for Biggs who had his scenes cut to explain why he'd care. Han has a moment of worry about the Millenium Falcon in RotJ (where he is comforted by Leia lol). But like even if there was a brief moment of Han awkwardly going "um, sorry about Alderaan?" and Leia saying "no time for crying, we'll get revenge by punching Tarkin in the d!ck" would've made, like, 10,000% more sense.

    My comment was more about the broader trope of it though, wherein the typical adventure film has the main character's parents die - often mothers - or be missing - often fathers - (see: Indiana Jones) as a way to remove any pesky obstacles to going out doing manly things like a family or for angst. Also appears in why these stories often cycle the female characters out once they get "clingy" (like the ol' woman murdered on her wedding day for manpain shtick) - the story focuses solely on the way the plot effects the male lead, not those around him, especially not women who exist in the plot to dole out emotional support to him whenever it's needed (even when they're tortured, have their friends and family killed etc).

    It's all basically tied up in making the lead, historically male, free to go on adventures and seduce many beautiful ladies without any repercussions. Which, to borrow a turn of phrase from D&D, often makes them murder-hobos when viewed from the outside - guys who wander from place to place, no place to call home, no friends, no family, kill people who get in their way.

    Thankfully though the new films have thus far avoided this with both Rey and Finn, so hopefully if it comes up again in this one it won't be handled so badly.

    The whole orphan thing is still pretty overdone either way tho.

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  9. #29

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    I'm not even sure if it's stated that Leia's parents bought it along with Alderran?

    If she's able to bury that in the name of her duty, then exactly where does that strength stem from? Has some other tragedy in earlier life steeled her?
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    My comment was more about the broader trope of it though, wherein the typical adventure film has the main character's parents die - often mothers - or be missing - often fathers - (see: Indiana Jones) as a way to remove any pesky obstacles to going out doing manly things like a family or for angst. Also appears in why these stories often cycle the female characters out once they get "clingy" (like the ol' woman murdered on her wedding day for manpain shtick) - the story focuses solely on the way the plot effects the male lead, not those around him, especially not women who exist in the plot to dole out emotional support to him whenever it's needed (even when they're tortured, have their friends and family killed etc).

    It's all basically tied up in making the lead, historically male, free to go on adventures and seduce many beautiful ladies without any repercussions. Which, to borrow a turn of phrase from D&D, often makes them murder-hobos when viewed from the outside - guys who wander from place to place, no place to call home, no friends, no family, kill people who get in their way.
    see every James Bond film ever
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