Why Do People Have A Problem With Special Characters

[addamsfamily36]

Ok

So, some people seem to have a dislike towards Special characters. Now that the restriction of asking your opponents permission to use a SC has been removed, more and more people are using special characters.

Personally i like Special characters, they add a lot of character and fun to the game.

I agree that it can get boring when you see a lot of armies with the same character, but these tend to be in armies that are similar in construction anyway.

Special characters, are also just another unit within the army, if you take away their name and fluff, and make up your own or just have them as a chapter master/commissar/autarch/farseer or whatever the HQ
may be, then they are just a set of rules often only slightly better than the normal HQ choice, and sometimes A lot better, but you often play the price for this.

Take Eldrad Ulthran

his points cost, is fractionally more than taking a normal farseer which has been fully kitted out with the same powers and wargear. he also comes with some very nifty personal wargear etc. Now you could take him in your biel tann, army call him farseer aria, and change the names of his equipment and wah la, a HQ character that uses special character rules, but isn't eldrad ulthran. I say this because people who seem to dislike special characters, seem to dislike the fact there is only one of that character and why would they be on all these battles.

--Well, if u changed his name then yeh wouldn't be the same guy just using his rules as a base for your own character.

--All the games aren't happening for real or at the same time.

--why wouldn't that person be at that battle? if it needs winning send the best

Ok thoughts guys?


Like special characters?

hate them?

I will add here that, by know means am i saying everyone must like SC or dislike SC, my last thread sparked a few arguments, so i don't want to suggest that, as i would like a less heated debate/discussion.

[Nabterayl]

I don't mind them, and I certainly have no problem with people taking them in their own armies. I suspect that one of the root causes of the dislike is that they're package deals. So much of the appeal of 40K is customization, and the all-or-nothing nature of special characters runs counter to that. Suppose for instance I want a huge, beefy warboss on a bike leading an all-bike army. The ork codex gives me no such option. The only character who gives me that option is less beefy than a regular warboss and in compensation comes with a bunch of big guns. "But I don't waaaaant a shooty warboss leading my all-bike army!" I whine. "I waaaaaant a big choppy warboss leading my all-bike army!"

Lack of options leads to whining. Whining leads to nerdrage. Nerdrage leads to the dark side.

[addamsfamily36]

Lack of options leads to whining. Whining leads to nerdrage. Nerdrage leads to the dark side.

lmao


Yeh, it can be very frustrating when you want to create something but can't. I mean i used Alith Anar (sorry i know thats fantasy) but he fits in with my army theme, and well i love his background, and i tried to create him from the normal Lord choice(because theres an identical item in the magic section for his main weapon) and he ended up being worse and more expensive

[Lord Azaghul]

Q: Why do some people hate special characters?
A: Warhammer Fantasy Battles.


*********

In 40k its ok, only a few SC are really over the top. I've taken a few on occation, I really like Gunnery Stg Harker.
I tried Creed a couple of times, and I felt like I was cheating, he kind of took 'tactics' out of the game for me.
I do plan on taking Pedro in some of my SM list.
However I generally prefer to: 'let my army speak for itself' And for the most part I feel SC are a bit of a crutch for lesser players. I also feel like the army is 'mine' if I use my a standard HQ or whatever that I kit out as I wish. Fluff games are a different story though, but those are generally prearanged games anyway!

Its pretty simple: with a few exceptions 40k characters don't 'break' the game that they do on the level that fantasy does, but the taboo against taking SC still exists.

[Vhalyar]

Considering that WHFB is quite a bit less popular than WH40k I don't see how that holds any water.

The reasons against them that I've seen the most: 'they are too powerful' or 'this guy would never lead such a small army'. Personally I like them. They add some extra customization to armies and allow some interesting FOC changes and different tactics.

If a fluff zealot gets uppity about a SC, you can always give your characters new imaginary names.
On the other hand, it's true that some characters can be rather nasty depending on the point levels.

[wazatdingder]

There used to be a DIY spirit within the hobby, even at the corporate level player were encourage to develop their own armies. Most SCs were not that "special." Most players took pride in having unique and original characters Come 5th ed they began to do more. They allow you to do things with your army that you could not do otherwise. Now they are required to make the force some one wants. You need Vulkan and Khan to use the tactics of those armies. Every Salamander force must have Vulkan, no other option. I like how they affect the game, I hate that I feel strong-armed into taking them to have a competitive force.

[Darkriver]

The biggest thing I've seen personally with people running Special Characters is that they tend to build their army around and sink the most points into making him big and bad. What I mean by this is for example taking Abaddon with 4 termy champs of some various mark all kitted out and stuck in a land raider. While this is fine this is the only unit that the person focuses on and has no clue as how to play the rest of the army when that LR pops first turn and the unit inside is blasted to pieces. SCs are fun to play with and can add some great fluff to your army, but shouldn't be used as the crutch that I've seen them used as so many times. I have a buddy that only plays Imperial Marines and I have yet to play one game with him that he hasn't taken some special toon to focus on being the center of the army. Anyways, that's just my experience with them.

[addamsfamily36]

Interesting about the $0k vs Warhammer SC usage.

If anything, i have started notice a trend on the opposite direction. Warhammer Special characters (althought still powerful) have started to be less game deciding/powerful.

Tyrion is a prime example, in the last book he was almost un-killable, Even if you killed him, he returned with a 2+ WARD!!!!

Even though he is still hard now, once he's dead he's dead. he lost the 2+ beard ward when reduced to one wound. and if the new rules rumours for warhammer are anything to go by, all the saves he has will be pointless as you might only be able to use one.


As for 40k, SC seem to be getting stronger more important as well. whereas before a SC was a SC, now they are a key to unlocking an armies specific traits etc. Astorath gives you the red thirsts on a 1-3, and takes the limits off death company !!!! lol (im a blood angels player, but im resisting the death company army)

I'm interested to see how , with new codex's, how the SC evolve/change, will they get stronger? will they become game breakers?

[eagleboy7259]

Aren't they already game breakers? If you're doing tournament building you typically look at whats the most broken over powered unit in your book and then spam it, heck their power level is even the reason some of the older books can still perform. Think about DA and Eldar, for the most part whenever someone posts up a new list you always hear "don't play this book unless you take Eldrad, Sammy, or Belial they are the most powerful builds." Same thing with the newer books too, think about when demons dropped it was all Fatecrusher, or the new SM book is all Vulkan builds. Heck if you did a regular captain up like He'stan he'd be more points and he wouldn't have that awesome chapter tactics.

If every book had access to at least 3 or 4 awesome characters than there would be kind of a balance and we'd have like a warmachine deal going on here, but it feels like every new book has characters and units dialed up to 11.

[addamsfamily36]

Aren't they already game breakers?

mmm depends on the player.


as mentioned by darkriver, some people focus so much on their SC that once they've been removed they really have no idea what to do, or how to employ the rest of their force to its full effect.

As much as SC are good i don't think they are a game breaker as such. Eldrad as you mentioned is great, but put a couple of psychic hoods down, and all of a sudden it becomes a 50/50 chance of succesful casting. So then you got a very pricey individual model.