Problems with Devastators and Thundefire Cannons?

[RampageRabbit]

Preface! I'm a new player and I've been slowly buying and building up my Marines forces but unfortunately I haven't gotten to play all that many really serious games in my area and because of that I lack the experience many of you have on what works and what doesn't.

I was going through my codex again this week between finals and class and all that and I kept thinking about how cool Thunderfire Cannons and Devastators sounded. I like the idea behind troops or artillery just shelling enemy troops and providing long range fire support and I love shooty units so I was contemplating working them into my list somehow, but I never see either of these in SM lists posted on either BoLS or DakkaDakka and I was wondering why.


What makes them subpar or not optimal? Is it that they have to completely be immobile to work and therefore have to hope that they can have a good view of the battlefield the entire game, which is unlikely? Is it that they're just too easy to kill? Not enough firepower? I'd really like to know, so I can refrain from buying semi-expensive models/kits that I'll never use.

[Melissia]

I like the idea behind troops or artillery just shelling enemy troops and providing long range fire support and I love shooty units so I was contemplating working them into my list somehow, but I never see either of these in SM lists posted on either BoLS or DakkaDakka and I was wondering why.

Because most people who like that stuff play the army suited better for it-- Imperial Guard.

The two aren't BAD, no. They just are kinda the odd units out, so to speak. Thunderfire Cannons are actually quite damned good against hordes.

[RampageRabbit]

Touché

[Melissia]

Well as I said, Thunderfire Cannons are actually quite good. They just don't suit most peoples' playstyles when they play Marines.

[RampageRabbit]

See, not that I know much about this game at all but looking at their stats I couldn't see how they would be bad, except for the reasons I listed above and with ranges of like (I forget) 36" I can't imagine not being able to hit something on a board that was 6x4'. Plus the idea of forcing a Difficult Terrain test on something sounds cool. But what do I know? I need to get some experience under my belt.

[Lord Azaghul]

Part of the reason is competativeness with in the slot.
Devestators are waaayyy to expensive for what you get out of them. I was thinking about running a 10man squad, but its well over 200pts, not to mention that unless you want lots of missle launchers, getting say 4 plasma cannons or 4 lascannons is going to be hard to come by and rather pricey on the $$ side of things.

Thunderfire cannons are very good against horde armies, but for the most part I'd rather have a whirlwind, or a preditor, or a land raider, not to mention points are hard to come by in the SM codex, so anything that's not 'multipurpose' has a hard time rising to the top of the list.

[catalyst2]

I use a Thunderfire cannon very frequently and when it works, it works very well. However, it's vulnerbale - as an AV10 (almost always immobile) vehicle, it is destoyed very easily esecially since ANY glancing or penetrating hit destroys it.

That said, I also take it for the Techmarine - if I've got ruins on the board he can fortify them and make it into a 3+ cover save. Given that I almost always take sniper scouts with camo cloaks, this means I've got 2+ cover saves for those scouts if I put them into the ruins.

Another plus can be that, once the Thunderfire is destoyed, the techmarine can wander off and go repair tanks like usual.

Devastators? Just what Lord Azaghul said. I have considered taking two rhinos and combat squadding a 10-man, 4 lascanon squad into the two so we can scoot and shoot a little more but it's still way too expensive. I might as well take 2 twin-linked lascannon razorbacks and be done with it!

[murrburger]

My problem with them are as follows:

Devastators: Expensive weapons, having lanes of fire blocked (causing you to lose turns of shooting. One way or another), being largely static in a mobile army, not scoring units... I could go on.

Thunderfire Cannon: Building that godawful 70 CAD paperweight. What a piece of trash.

[Image]

My understanding is that several t.fire cannons could be pretty devastating.

For devastators, they're just too expensive to be worthwhile.

[Judge]

There's normally no reason for more than 5 marines in a Devastator squad (6 for Space Wovles). Blood Angels with 4 rockets and a sergeant for example would be 130 points. Against 'Nids, you will want these.

Pick and maintain clear fields of fire for them, especially if you can start them on elevated terrain and with cover, and they'll do fine in most matches.

10 man squads? Waste of points - don't plan for failure. Lascannons? Hard to justify the expense in most situations. 4 Heavy Bolters against Tau or Eldar? Now we're talking.