Bending or Beardy

[Tynskel]

Nothing says you can't!

I always recommend bringing a baneblade to tournaments-- whenever someone tries to pull some junk like what 'darrel' is doing, you can just say that your baneblade has come in from reserves!


bwahahahahah!

[TSINI]

I think the point he was tryingto make was that by being armed with a lightning claw - he may re-roll ANY rolls to wound

it doesnt say these only apply to the lightning claw

so even if he chose to use the thunder hammer and not the lightning claw, by being armed with the lightning claw, he gains the ability to re-roll any wounds - hence their argument for re-rolling wounds from his pistol

lets just imagine there is a piece of wargear like a trophy or something, that granted the wearer a re-roll of all rolls to wound, it would be worded exactly the same as this

trophy skull: any model with this piece of wargear may re-roll any rolls to wound.

so the argument here is that by simply having a lightning claw - the model gains the ability to re roll any rolls to wound


I dont agree with this at all, but it does go towards pointing out reading the RAW is entirely rediculous at times, and common sense should always prevail (even in demolisher cannons stats inBA codexes )

[Bean]

I think people understand what the guy's argument is. The point is that the guy's argument is wrong.

Being armed with the lightning claw isn't enough to grant you the benefit of the lightning claw--you have to actually be using the lightning claw to benefit from it's rules. This is made clear in the "Special Close Combat Weapons" paragraph on page 42 of the BRB, where it says, "These include more complex and powerful weapons that enhance the wielder's combat skills and confer bonuses, and sometimes penalties, to the models using them."

The lightning claw "allows the wielder to re-roll any failed roll to wound," but this isn't the same as saying, "a model with a lightning claw can re-roll any failed roll to wound." Given the context set by the general description of special close combat weapons, what it is really saying is, "a model using a lightning claw can re-roll any failed roll to wound."

Given that there are fairly specific rules governing what special close combat weapons can be used by a model at what times, this does a pretty good job of preventing a model from gaining partial benefit from the lightning claw while actually using another weapon.

[gannam]

This is my problem. These guys started off by making great videos about unboxing's, assembly, and even rules questions, but lately they have really been straining their credibility with these controversy questions.

They need to get darrell off the crack and put him back to standing there making the other's look good, or they are going to start losing fans over this crap.

[Old_Paladin]

I'm with Gannam, John and the guys used to seem pretty bright and informative; but if this is the stuff they want to get into...

This is easily the stupidest debate I've heard. It's neither cheesy nor beardy; it's simply cheating. It doesn't have to say 're-roll wounds in close combat' because the term 'in close combat' is said with every other reference. It's a close combat weapon and may only be used in close combat. It's a power weapon, and thus may only be used in close combat. It's a special weapon which means that ALL of it's abilities may NEVER be used in conjuction with ANY other special weapon.

Or going with what Bean said: the lightning claw doesn't say "a model that simply includes a claw in it's wargear may re-roll every to-wound roll it fails..." It's attackes made by the lightning claw.

This is why you need to read all the rules to play the game; applying only a single line out of a paragraph of text will almost always give you the wrong method of play.

[Melissia]

I think the point he was tryingto make was that by being armed with a lightning claw - he may re-roll ANY rolls to wound

Yep, that was his point.

He was hilariously wrong.k

[DarkLink]

I think the point he was tryingto make was that by being armed with a lightning claw - he may re-roll ANY rolls to wound

it doesnt say these only apply to the lightning claw

What he forgot, though, is that you may only benefit from one special weapon at a time. When you use a lightning claw, you may reroll wounds. But you can't use a lightning claw at the same time you use a thunderhammer. Thus, no rerolls to wound.

[Docmani]

Let me start by saying the guy is flat wrong.

With that said, I think this is an extension of the same question that came up concerning the wording of the close combat weapons in the new Tyranids codex. The wording in this codex is a great deal more specific saying that "A model with a single set of scything talons re-rolls any To-Hit rolls of a 1 in close combat". This suggests that a model with a bonesword and a set of scything talons would get both.

So, are scything talons normal close combat weapons that confer a special ability to the model or a special close combat weapon that cannot be combined with another? I can see it both ways and it can be argued both ways.

Now in the case above, with lightning claws, it says it allows the wielder to re-roll, but it is explicitly stated that this is a special close combat weapon. I think that is a clearer case, but I can understand why this gentleman might be confused (as the ability is poorly worded....)

When (if?) GW FAQs this stuff, they really need to focus on keeping their wording consistent. It would avoid a great deal of arguing....

[eriochrome]

I thought easter was last month. This is not RAW. They specifically say that special close combat weapons give bonuses when using them and that you must pick which to use when you have more than 1. But now that someone has put this out there you will see people trying to do it and get away with it from people not wanting to argue or not knowing the rules well themselves and hence continuing down the line.

Now this might work for something like the mandiblaster or attack squip that gives you an extra cc attack to your profile so that it gets the reroll but not another special close combat weapon or a ranged weapon.