Should I stay or should I go now? - The EU Referendum Thread

[grimmas]

A little bit naive, don't you think?
The mechanism to kick you out is YOUR VOTERS.
EU offers a very quick exit. Your government tries to stall.
Now did they vote to exit or to stay as long as possible? The longer you stay, the weaker your Gov, appears.
"Yes we voted out but we have no backup plan and still try to stay as long as possible".

You wont receive an offer. All you get is basically a "we respect your decision and prepare to get you out as fast as possible according to your voters will, so we can make sure that you can stop paying membership fees as fast as possible"

We shall see but their rules state something very different to your assertions.

It's called a negotiation they want things from us we want things from them that's how it goes..

So now it's bad if we stay longer, I thought you just said it was better for us to stay a bit longer. Are you just arguing for the sake of it?

[grimmas]

A thought did occur to me on the whole thing. The referendum was an advisory it isn't binding. Surely Parliament needs to vote on the results? Of course it "should" go with the views of the the people but I'm not entirely sure anyone can invoke article 50 just yet. Merits a bit more digging methinks.

[eldargal]

Just read an interesting comment from the Grauniad...

Basically, it's an argue net that David Cameron stepping down is because actually invoking Article 50 is a poisoned chalice - especially as he'd promised to hit it as soon as a Leave outcome was confirmed.

Which of course, he didn't. Whoever succeeds him is now sitting on a potential 'political career self-destruct'....

Yup I read that too, interesting and compelling lead. Also opens up possibility of another contender to the Tory leadership running on the platform of not invoking Article 50 and capitalising on the growing regret and fear over the Leave vote. Assuming Johnson doesn't decide he values his career more than his opportunistic exploitation of the Leave campaign.
Also hearing talk that Scotland and possibly NI both could have veto power over the decision anyway.

The petition for a second referendum jst reached 3 million signatures too.

[Kirsten]

You wont receive an offer. All you get is basically a "we respect your decision and prepare to get you out as fast as possible according to your voters will, so we can make sure that you can stop paying membership fees as fast as possible"

we wont stop paying membership fees at all, because if we want to partake in the single market you have to pay the dues and abide by all the regulations.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, the more the current government stalls the more the opposition will accuse them of being too scared to enact the will of the people. On one side, the Pro-Leave groups will be calling them too cowardly to do what needs to be done and enact Article 50, on the other the Pro-Remain groups will say it's proof that Leave is an awful idea as we don't have the mechanisms in place to make the transfer, and isn't the right honourable gentleman's reticence to enact Article 50 proof that he doesn't have faith in it either?

Basically, prepare for plenty more sh*t-slinging in Parliament and a few years of utter nothing as we bumble about arguing over what to do. All the while we're still paying EU membership, still open to Free Movement, and the whole thing was utterly pointless.

Given how slim the majority was, I can't see a platform for Pro-Leave specifically getting enough votes to grab a full parliamentary majority comes the next election. We may see another party evolve that would aim to address the underlying concerns that pushed people towards Brexit, i.e., fear of migration, irritation at a London-centric parliament and general disillusionment with the current state of politics. Considering that we'll likely see a year or two of inaction because it would take a martyr to press the big, red Article 50 button and thus expose themselves to blame from their peers for enacting it. Politicians don't tend to breed martyrs.

I can see this vote fracturing our politics even more than before, and a second Referendum seems likely now.

[Mr Mystery]

And there's the suggestion postal votes for citizens abroad never got to them....

[Kirsten]

All the while we're still paying EU membership, still open to Free Movement, and the whole thing was utterly pointless.

again, Britain will still be paying and still open to free movement even after the actual exit. because that is the only way to access the single market. two central pillars that the Leave campaign were won on, but they will never actually happen anyway, and Leave admitted as much first thing Friday.

[Mr Mystery]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the whole thing was just a Tory media circus that went horribly, horribly wrong.

Leave wasn't the intended outcome for the party elite at all. BoJo and Gove were ringers sent in to take the spotlight off Farage. Their whole carefully stage managed plan was to run a piss poor Remain campaign, to let Leave run its course and be defeated, neatly shutting down the Eurosceptic Tories....

[grimmas]

And there's the suggestion postal votes for citizens abroad never got to them....

An actual reason for another referendum. "We don't like the result" isn't.

- - - Updated - - -

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the whole thing was just a Tory media circus that went horribly, horribly wrong.

Leave wasn't the intended outcome for the party elite at all. BoJo and Gove were ringers sent in to take the spotlight off Farage. Their whole carefully stage managed plan was to run a piss poor Remain campaign, to let Leave run its course and be defeated, neatly shutting down the Eurosceptic Tories....

Labour haven't actually come out of it too well either though. All told our glorious politicians have not covered themselves in glory all round. I'm actually quite surprised one opportunistic soul hadn't come striding out of the wood work of the back benches to make a play for the big game.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm not sure which bit of 'many of reasons people voted Leave have now been revealed as utter lies' it is your struggling with here?

Control of borders? LIE. We'll be in the Single Market, so those stay.

£350,000,000 a week into the NHS instead of Brussels? LIE! Farage admitted it. Hannah admitted it. Iain Duncan Smith has admitted it - though of course they're all claiming 'we never said that...'

That to me is bloody good reason to consider a second referendum. Leave is a one way street. This isn't like a General Election where the Government has to at least try to make good on its manifesto, lest they lose ground and ultimately get kicked out five years later.

If there is widespread dissent amongst Leave at the outright lies they were sold, we must have another referendum on it.