The Eight Fold Path

[Mr Mystery]

Spinning off from this month's TL;DR from Yorkie, I'd like to explore Chaos and it's archetypes.

See, to me right now, Chaos is a little anaemic in execution. Not because it's Codex is apparently a bit meh (Donkies years since I played 40k Chaos), but because the whole thing is feeling quite underserved.

But what do I mean by that? Well, if you're a Khornate Lord, you have to be a near mindless butcher, anathema to all life because just as tarts will have their trinkets, Khorne does love his skulls. Slaanesh? Dirty Boys only. If you don't do things that would make the Baby Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells blush, balk then see his brekkie for the second time that day, no place for you. Tzeentch! Best be damned good with Magic. And a Thousand Son. Nurgle? Bogies or GTFO.

Yet there's a lot more to the four. Age of Sigmar for instance is exploring Chaos in interesting ways at the moment. If you could pop your prejudice aside for a moment, I can recommend reading Call of Archaon and Call of Chaos for example. Actual chaos characters, with actual motivations! Who know!

And I think a greater variety can be translated to the tabletop quite nicely. For a start, something akin to Chapter Tactics. But rather than a simple 'Spiky Ultramarines' translation, it should focus on your army's general, and reflect their particular manner of praise.

Khorne for instance loves his warriors. Yes he does. In a purely platonic way. Yet, that doesn't mean they need all be blood mad butchers. All Skulls are welcome, but not all Skulls are equal. So offer a range of possible takes. You could take the classic well known Khârn archetype, they who slay everything. Even puppies. But you might instead opt for a 'true' Champion of Khorne, they who seek their way to Khorne's right hand by seeking out the champions of their foe, that they might lay only the most worthy of Skulls at the feet of their God. The followers of such a being would likely be inspired with each worthy addition, granting a bonus on the field the more enemy characters fall to their masters blade.

Yet another might be a tactical type - one who forgoes personal glory for the challenge of 'the few against the many', adept and renowned for reaping a fearsome tally despite their Warbands modest size.

Each archetype (and they're by no means God exclusive) would require a different army selection to get the most from them, increasing the variety of armies seen in the field.

But what do you reckon?

[Psychosplodge]

Wasn't third edition when they simplified it to be like that?
Was it the codex imperialis that came with second that talked about khorne being the good of honour as well as wanton slaughter? As a chaos horde in TW:WH there are events which keep those elements to khorne.
Nurgle being entropy rather than just disease so theoretically feeding off the decline of the imperium(even if all the daemons look like the golgothan in dogma), but also the god that "truely" loved his followers.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Nurgle could gain bonus VPs for spreading contagion amongst the for - sharing Grandfather's blessings etc.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Aaron Dembski-Bowden tends to do good renditions of the decline of followers of the Gods. My personal headcanon is that it's like addiction, (simplified.) You start with a little bit of, say, bloodthirstiness, but as Khorne takes note, he starts to manipulate your soul to only feel the joy of life as you fight. Over time the bloodthirstiness becomes all you are, because then you're resonating more strongly with Khorne, and that empowers him more than the odd fisticuffs now and then.

I'd like to see them do more with the Gods, but they're difficult to translate to the tabletop. IMO, Tzeentch should get a character who has to secretly declare that they will kill a particular model or character, and get points for the fate manipulation that follows. (Or maybe even get points for allowing one of their characters to be killed, would be cool to reveal that as your opponent feels quite smug for killing your Warlord. Perfect Just As Planned moment.)

I think the Blood Tithe system for Khorne works quite well. Get points for them dying. Get points for you dying. Get points for killing their characters. Blood flows the same whatever happens.

Slaanesh would be tough. IMO they should be able to get Hit and Run to represent their fickle need for new stimuli constantly. Would be nasty paired with the +1I they get. Not sure how to reward a player for attention-deficit soldiering within the current game mechanics, though. Perhaps have a randomised system of objectives each turn, that resets if not completed in that very turn. Kill X, Charge Y, that sort of thing?

Nurgle would be interesting as well. Perhaps bonus points for Wounding Characters, (spreading the plague.) Points if you engage a unit and bog them down? Nurgle's a tougher one as plague isn't easy to represent in the game.

[Mr Mystery]

I think Slaanesh might be a bit easier than first thought.

They're all about experience, yes? So how about Lordly Bonuses for killing and destroying in a variety of ways. Killed someone at range? +1. Hit and killed with all your attacks in a single round of combat? +3 (perfection bonus). Seized a last minute (as in, last thing in your final movement phase) objective? +1 (taking away your opponent's glory).

But yeah. Chaos is an addiction!

[grimmas]

I feel that Chaos has suffered from a 4Chan style "comedy" simplification. Slaanesh is a good example of this she/he has never been the God of sex but a good of pleasure taken to the absolute extreme people have just taken a very simplistic view of that, despite the both Lucius and Sigvald embodying it rather well, it's not just about shagging with those boys.

As mentioned earlier Khorne is very big into martial pride and his followers being the greatest warriors, sure he cares not whence the blood flows and all skulls are welcome but he does approve and greatly reward the greatest killers, warriors and generals because other than magic he doesn't mind how it's done.

The characterisation of the servants of Chaos in the Call of Archaon and so far in the Call of Chaos (I'm only half through) are superb a real departure from the simplistic 4 Chan approach. It's really making them live in AoS. This is somthing they started in The End Time most notably The Lord of The End Times where we learn that Archaon reasons are his own rather than the God's and that even his Swords of Chaos weren't really the fanatics we expect.

I love a nuanced bad guy and GW is really starting to get it together on AoS. Of course I'll add the caveat that the HH series has been doing the same for 40K

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I think Slaanesh might be a bit easier than first thought.

They're all about experience, yes? So how about Lordly Bonuses for killing and destroying in a variety of ways. Killed someone at range? +1. Hit and killed with all your attacks in a single round of combat? +3 (perfection bonus). Seized a last minute (as in, last thing in your final movement phase) objective? +1 (taking away your opponent's glory).

But yeah. Chaos is an addiction!

I'd like to see bonuses may be for taking wounds or perhaps bonus for "interesting" fights, challenges or multiple combats and the like. I always thought "feel no pain" suited then better than Nurgle as well as they rather enjoy it (not that we want to see both of them have it).

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Ushakr Mir in Call of Archaon is far and away my favourite Khorne devotee. Those who have read it can probably guess why!

I can only hope that it all eventually translates to the tabletop. Khorne Bloodbound are...well, kind of alright. You've got your head honch, and then his Eight Mates - hand picked psychopaths, each of whom are seeking glory and to take control of the warband. Which is nice in it's way. Still a bit linear though, but given your own Eight Mates are your choice, colour it how you like

Ruleswise for Nurgle and Slaanesh, I agree. FnP still feels a wee bit lazy though.

Now, Slaaneshi peeps getting hyped up the more they're hurt, go for it.

Nurgle? Might make them well hard, but how about they remove all casualties in CC at the I1 step - they just don't know when they're dead, and can fight on long after they really shouldn't be. Or reserve that for actual Deathguard to make them ridiculously tough.

I dunno, I'm just shooting the breeze here!

[grimmas]

Ushakr Mir 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Oh yeah FnP has become the laziest addition rule ever run a close second by destroyer. I don't really like the blanket +1I may be some bonuses after a bit of fighting but I'd always imagined Slaaneshi followers being a bit torpid and listless before they get going l.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Something similar to Power Through Pain?

[Mr Mystery]

Certainly akin to that - rewards for them being active, or for performing specific feats, perhaps linked to the character you've chosen to lead, and the example they lead by.