Boyz will be Boyz

[Sir Biscuit]

A real life example taken from Luttwak's excellent book, [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Logic-Peace-Revised-Enlarged/dp/0674007034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272909920&sr=8-1"]Strategy[/URL]:

When the first anti-tank launchers came out, people were convinced that the age of the tank was over. After accounting for distance variations and weapon capabilities, it was determined that 2.5 anti-tank teams was all that is required to kill a tank. Why spend millions per tank, then, when a few launcher with price tags in the thousands could easily destroy them?

The answer's pretty obvious for everyone who actually knew anything about combat. The truth was, those teams could only achieve that kill ratio when they were fighting on a featureless plain, absent terrain, weather, and assuming everyone was fearless. In actual combat, the launchers were all but useless, included to boost moral. After all, who's going to stand up in the middle of the artillery that usually precedes tanks, aim through the smoke and dust, wait until the tank is within range, (and has been firing its machine-guns this whole time,) carefully aim, and fire? It's not very likely, and so the tank remains a vital part of military forces today.

You have the same problem here. You are assuming a featureless plain and that the enemy will not react in an effective way against your forces. So yes, the math comes out strong, but you are ignoring several vital elements in this puzzle.

So okay, let's look at some numbers. In fact, let's apply some to that lots-o-lines formation you are so proud of.

First, just how wide is this formation? Let's assume that each Ork is 1.5 inches from the one next to him. This allows you to spread out across the table, and really minimize what blast weapons can do to you. That means 28 gaps between orks, or 42". Also, we need to keep in mind that each orks base is 1", so that's another 30". Hey, that brings us to an even six feet! If you deploy 1" apart it's 58", and .5" it's 44". Big no matter what you do.

Second, let's note that generally the army can only move as quickly as it's front rank. It's potentially possible that the second rank could leapfrog the first, but the third row on back are unlikely to be able to achieve the same feat. That means, when you hit difficult terrain, (and you WILL, you are 44" to 72" wide,) you will be moving at the rate that the front rank rolls. Bummer, slows you down a bit. A bad run roll screws you even more.

Even worse, what happens when there is impassable terrain in your way? (And it will be, you are WIDE) You have an illusion of a decision: either split your forces, losing a bunch of them the KFF bonus, or bunch up to one side to pass by. Either way, you end up losing a turn, maybe more, of movement. A smart opponent can actually force this issue, wither by moving a skimmer right in front of the direct center of the line, or landing an empty drop-pod there.

Though actually, the biggest weakness of the line is not how incredibly unwieldy it is, but rather what the opponent can do to it. Two words: Tank. Shock. Pg 68 of the BRB:

"If some enemy models would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position, (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency."

This creates a conundrum, given your line. Lets say a tank shocks the middle of it, (or rally any point on the line that's not near the end.) A rhino, the least threatening and smallest vehicle that can possibly tank shock you, is 3"x4.5", which gives it an effective 5"x6.5" tank-shock footprint. Wow, that can easily hit at least three of your lines... but then what happens? We know that you can't possibly stay in coherency with that tank in the way, so you have to move models. But even if you do move them, you can't stay in coherency and still avoid the tank.

So, we look up compulsory movement, pg 11 of the BRB... hmm, it just says that it will be discussed later, and then it never brings it up again. So, what you do in this exact situation is up to you and your opponent, but regardless of what you agree on it's not going to be pretty for your line. Either allow an exception to move out of coherency and lose movement next turn regaining it, or collapse the line to the point where they are clustered but, yes, in coherency.

Yes, you can death or glory. What are the chances you will stop the rhino?
You get one S8 hit from the power klaw against the front AV11. So...
Glance: 1/6*1/3=1/18
+Pen: 1/3*2/3=2/9
So total, 2/9. Not great, and if you fail you lose the Nob. So you'll probably just not oppose the tank shock. Chances get much, much worse when anything with a front armor over 11 shocks you. (Like a chimera, another common transport.)

More numbers? Well, how about you don't need to kill 180 orks, you need to kill 144. Why 144? Because that's 24 per squad. After that, they are taking moral tests and failing on 7's. Remember, they aren't space marines, and they aren't true fearless, and once they start running they will never, ever stop. Or if you hit that number in CC, hey, here comes a sweeping advance! Actually, in close combat, as soon as the unit dips below ten a sweeping advance is likely to occur. (Unless you are fighting very weak units, orks will tend to lose more wounds in combat.)

Math is all well and good, but the reality is that you are not fighting on an empty plain against an opponent who will sit still and take it. Play a few real games and the things I'm saying will suddenly make a lot of sense.

EDIT: Thanks navajas, it's good to have an actual green tide player in here. If I may ask, what kind of formations do you find to be most effective for your boys?

[Judge]

navajas, you're not exactly the sort I'd want support from.

Biscuit, your first two posts were a waste of time, so why would I bother to read your third? Thanks, and have a nice day.

[McMurdoc]

Want to kill mech with this list ? No problem, if you change 1 thing...

For every 10 boyz you can take a rokkit launcha. Okay, it costs some points, so you'll have less bodies and their BS sucks, but imagine the face of your opponent when he realizes he has a regular cloud of rokkits flying in his direction...

Tried and tested, much to the dismay of my regular opponent. Nowadays, if I even mention this list, he immediately sets of to look for his templates, much to my dismay

[Judge]

Orks can certainly have a lot of Rokkits on the cheap, Murdoc, and I've used them myself in a number of situations where shootiness is called for. The list posted is a direct assault army, though, with no real time for shooting since they need to run instead. Have you tried Deff Koptas?

[navajas]

navajas, you're not exactly the sort I'd want support from. Feel free to crawl in a hole and smell yourself.

Biscuit, your first two posts were a waste of time, so why would I bother to read your third? Thanks, and have a nice day.

Hahaha! At this point I honestly can't tell if you're role playing this cliche' or are simply its archetype. Whatever the case, you are exactly the kind of person I'd expect to NOT want the advice of someone who's actually played, dozens of times, precisely the type of army you're theorizing.

You've been good for a laugh guy, cheers!

[Judge]

Err, haha back at you?

Haha.

I've played myself more than a few dozen times, so I'm not exactly impressed by net experience.

[Sir Biscuit]

That's okay Judge, my posts aren't for you, they're for people who actually play 40k. I wouldn't want them to be fooled by your trash advice.

navajas, I hope you post more, you make me laugh.

[Judge]

Your posts are for navajas, then. Clearly a refined sort of audience.

Interesting that you're claiming to post for the sake of others, though. You don't bother to read before commenting, so why would you expect anyone else to?

[Judge]

*Now updated with a Mock Battle Report.

[Gotthammer]

Not a legal BA list, only one troops choice.