Imperial elites

[Kahoolin]

Divisio Telepathica - Smaller than the Military and Executive Orders, the Telepath Orders operate Psi-Titans and work from a single, secret Forge World at the heart of the Imperium.

Oooh Psi-Titans! That sounds pretty rad.

Marines don't start their training as young as Stormtroopers do.

But they do have far longer active lives, barring accident. The average marine is going to be far more experienced, better equipped and a more effective warrior than your average storm trooper when taken as individuals.

[Sitnam]

No, I assure you that Schola trained Stormtroopers really ARE the best :P

They aren't random adults conscripted into duty and then they get lucky enough to survive long enough to become elite. They are trained from near-infancy as soldiers, and they get experience in combat before a most stormtrooper "equivalents" ever see their first military action.

However many of these planetary equivalents come from worlds dedicated to war, such as Cadia and Krieg, who also train their youth for war.

So is the consensus number of Sisters of Battle in the many thousands? That seems awfully and unsensibily small considering the strength of the Ecclesiarchy.

[Kahoolin]

However many of these planetary equivalents come from worlds dedicated to war, such as Cadia and Krieg, who also train their youth for war.

So is the consensus number of Sisters of Battle in the many thousands? That seems awfully and unsensibily small considering the strength of the Ecclesiarchy.

Well we could make some assumptions based on what we know (although we know what they say about that...)

Premise #1: Most male progenii suited for military service become storm troopers.
Premise #2: Not all Storm Troopers come from Progenia.
Premise #3: Most female progenii suited for service become Sororitas.
Premise #4: All (or virtually all) sisters are progenii before being handed over to the Sororitas.

This is where we get into assumptions:

Say half of stormies are progenii, the other half are world-specific equivalents. I say this because even though there are presumably more Schola facilities than ST producing worlds, worlds like Krieg or Cadia would throw up far more ST equivalents than a Schola Progenium on a similar sized world.

So if we take the number of STs who were progenii to be roughly half of the total number of STs, and we assume that the number of progenii who become sisters is (very) roughly similar to those who become STs, there should be about half as many sisters as storm troopers in the galaxy. Assuming that the militant orders are only about, say 1/10th of that total, then using Javin's math (and L192837465's correction!) we get about 25 million militant sororitas (I think).

That sounds plausible, although it conflicts with the WH codex. Then again, what doesn't? That thing is leaky as a sieve.

[Melissia]

It doesn't conflict C:WH. C:WH does not give a limit on the number of Minor Orders. Not even a guesstimation.

[Kahoolin]

That's true. There could be bazillions of them, each with a couple of hundred sisters. Maybe every shrine world has its own order, and the Orders Majoris are just the ones from major shrines?

[Melissia]

The Major Orders are split between shrines Holy Terra and Ophelia VII, the second most holy world in the Imperium. The former we know quite well, and the latter already blocked a Tyranid invasion IIRC.

[imperialsavant]

Ah, fair enough, Mel. Thanks! I'm still getting around to the Cain series in my search for useful background information.

Ahhh Mate! You will LOVE them!
Lots of Action, Humour & good background.
I think you will love Cain's prejudces & slant on things.Look out for his first meeting with a Kroot. Incredable!

[Kahoolin]

I think you will love Cain's prejudces & slant on things.Look out for his first meeting with a Kroot. Incredable!

Which one is that in? I've read Cain's Last Stand and Duty Calls.

Anyone who likes Cain should check out the Flashman books by G.M. Fraser. They are basically the same thing, only set in the 1800s and Flashman is more cowardly, womanizing and treacherous than Cain - a true anti-hero. They are really funny and full of fantastic military and historical detail.

I can only forgive Sandy Mitchell for so shamelessly copying Flashman because well . . . even though Cain is just Flashman in space, Flashman in space is still pretty damn cool.

[Nabterayl]

Well we could make some assumptions based on what we know (although we know what they say about that...)

Premise #1: Most male progenii suited for military service become storm troopers.
Premise #2: Not all Storm Troopers come from Progenia.
Premise #3: Most female progenii suited for service become Sororitas.
Premise #4: All (or virtually all) sisters are progenii before being handed over to the Sororitas.

#2 is incorrect. If you're a storm trooper, you come from a schola progenium. Lots of Guard regiments have troopers who are arguably of storm trooper quality (e.g., Shock Troop kasrkin, Death Korps grenadiers, Tanith scouts), but they aren't storm troopers in the strict sense of the word. Storm troopers come from a schola, by definition.

So if we take the number of STs who were progenii to be roughly half of the total number of STs, and we assume that the number of progenii who become sisters is (very) roughly similar to those who become STs, there should be about half as many sisters as storm troopers in the galaxy. Assuming that the militant orders are only about, say 1/10th of that total, then using Javin's math (and L192837465's correction!) we get about 25 million militant sororitas (I think).

That sounds plausible, although it conflicts with the WH codex. Then again, what doesn't? That thing is leaky as a sieve.

So with the premise correction above, we arrive at 50 million?

I find that ... not implausible, but let me offer a couple of countervailing considerations that I don't think have been discussed:

1. We're assuming that roughly 50% of all progenii are women. That isn't necessarily true. You have to be the child of an Imperial servant who died in the service to be accepted, but the Ghost novels heavily imply that you still have to be accepted - i.e., it's not as if every orphan of a veteran has a right to attend. So it could be that the student bodies are weighted toward men.
2. The strength of the Ecclesiarchy has never been described as its standing army, as far as I know. Wars of faith are fought by the Guard, the Navy, the frateris militia (i.e., mobs of religious zealots), and the Sororitas - not by Ecclesiarchical regulars exclusively. There is no need for the Ecclesiarchy to have enough battle sisters to fight wars on its own - and indeed we have good reason to believe that is not the case, since battle sisters are not equipped to fight wars on their own. If the military strength of the Ecclesiarchy were truly founded upon the Orders Militant, we'd expect those orders to be organized differently than they are. So there's nothing in the fluff that requires millions upon millions of battle sisters.

[eldargal]

There are approximately one million Space Marines, which are considered quite rare. Nothing in the fluff says Adepta Sororitas are rare, though nothing says they aren't, either. Given that the Adepta Sororitas are the Chamber Militant of the Ecclesiarchy, which itself is the largest institution in the Imperium, I think the fighting strength of the Adepta Sororitas would have be at least one million and possibly many millions.

All this is just supposition, of course.