1500 pt. Space Marines ACL

[DevilUknow]

This is a 1500 pt. list I'm thinking of putting together for Astronomi-con next year. I assembled this list using the army composition rules on the astronomi-con site and JWolfs ACL article from back in June.

HQ
Terminator Librarian w/ Vortex and Smite

Elite
Terminator Squad x5 w/ 4 Chain Fists and Assault Cannon

Troops
Tactical Marines x10 w/ Missile Launcher, Melta Gun, PF
Razorback (TLHB)

Tactical Marines x10 w/ Missile Launcher, Melta Gun, PF
Razorback (TLHB)

Tactical Marines x10 w/ Multi Melta, Flamer, PF
Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon

Fast
Land Speeder Squad x2 w/ 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Multi Meltas

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad x10 w/ 2 Multi Meltas and 2 Missile Launchers
Rhino

3 - 6 Objective Takers and 11 KP.

I think this list has a competent array of answers to pretty much everything that can come at it. Use a Gun Line w/ speed bump combat squads to vs. assaulty Armies. Against shooty forces, i can drop Deep Strikers and use transports as cover.

Any glaring holes I've missed?

[Jwolf]

It's hard to like the Terminators in that configuration - TH/SS are just such good fire magnets.

[DevilUknow]

My beef with Assault Terminators is that they my general plan is to throw them into the middle of the enemy force deep strike style they're stuck doing nothing for a turn. At least these shooty terminators can... shoot.

The Chain Fists are basically to scare them into moving their armour (reducing their effective firing). Though if they aren't doing their job I may remove them in favor of storm bolters on the Razorbacks (they've never let me down).

I'll try it in a couple of games and if they don't work out i'll try the Assault Terminators.

[Hades Alpha]

Great list, but I have some suggestion for you:

HQ
Terminator Librarian w/ Vortex and Smite

If you take a terminator Librarian, try to give him the SS. It's worth the extra points. Also vortex and smite aren't that good. Null zone, the avenger and gate are more appealing in my opinion.

Elite
Terminator Squad x5 w/ 4 Chain Fists and Assault Cannon

4 chainfist is totally overkill. It's true that assault terminators won't do anything when they deep strike, but they are lot more effective. Your opponent won't charge them and your TH/SS will be able to take any incoming fire. Also, 4 storm bolter and 1 assault cannon won't do that much.

Troops
Tactical Marines x10 w/ Missile Launcher, Melta Gun, PF
Razorback (TLHB)

Tactical Marines x10 w/ Missile Launcher, Melta Gun, PF
Razorback (TLHB)

I would remove the PF in one if not both of your mech tactical squad. You can use the point elsewhere and they probably won't see any close combat. I wouldn't use anything above a PW.

Tactical Marines x10 w/ Multi Melta, Flamer, PF
Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon

Your drop marine are sweet. I would take a meltagun instead of the flamer and maybe a combi-weapon.

Fast
Land Speeder Squad x2 w/ 2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Multi Meltas

If you take a squadron of land speeder, you should give them the same weapon load out. Either ranged with the typhoon launcher and HB or close range with HF and MM.

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad x10 w/ 2 Multi Meltas and 2 Missile Launchers
Rhino

I hope you will combat squad you devastator. The 2 MM together in the middle of the board and the 2 ML farther with the transport. I would rather but a razorback with them instead.

What do you think?

[Excalibur]

I think giving your Libraian Might of the Ancients is a good idea as it lets him threaten everything. I'm not sure how good Null Zone is, I've never used it but my opponents don't often have lots of invulnerable saves. And I'd probably take The Avenger over Smite as it auto hits and only has slightly less range.

Overall I like your list but I agree with Hades Alpha in that you don't need a powerfist in both mech squads a power weapon should do fine. It makes sense in the pod but less in the rhinos as those troops will be able to avoid MC and tanks if they want. I like your Terminator unit and i usually have good results with the assault cannon.

My last comment, don't deploy your Land Speeders as a squadron. I think they will be more effective if they are able to move on thier own and will force yor opponent to use two units to deal with them instead of just one. I only run squadrons if I need the Fast attack room with I usually do since i love my fast attack.

Good Luck

[Hades Alpha]

My last comment, don't deploy your Land Speeders as a squadron. I think they will be more effective if they are able to move on thier own and will force yor opponent to use two units to deal with them instead of just one. I only run squadrons if I need the Fast attack room with I usually do since i love my fast attack.

I respect your opinion but I must say that, when I face isolated Land speeder, I see them like easy kill point. It's true they are more flexible but they are easier to kill.

But what do I know. I think it depends on how well you play them.

[Skitter Leap]

Solid advice from Hades. I would only add to the terminator debate. In assault against armour power fists are fine as most rear armour is 10. I don't know how anyone can pass up the heavy 2 missile launcher, great against hoards, power armoured armies, and gives the ability to threaten vehicles, all at a 48" range.

[DevilUknow]

This is all good stuff.

The choices I've made are heavily influenced by a. the Astronomi-Con army compesition scoring and b. the models I already own. That and I've already got the current force 99% assembled (and I don't need to buy anything new).

I've made a couple of adjustments (removed a couple of chain fists, drops 2 power fists in favor of power weapons, poached my Land Raider for its twin lined heavy bolter for Razorback number 3, etc).

I might do some "counts as" malarky and try out the cyclone missile launcher and the Assault Termies and see if I want to drop the extra $$$ as well.

Thanks!