Tankery, The Thread

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, the Churchill capped out at a 75mm gun, and kinda got left behind as a result when it came to tank vs tank. It also had flat armour rather than sloped, so it fell behind in that regard.

Still, it wasn't a tank killer, just an infantry support. By all accounts it did an admirable job in that role.

[Haighus]

Well, they did make the 17 pounder Black Prince prototype, but it arrived pretty much at the same time as the superior Centurion. To be honest, the lack of sloped armour probably didn't make all that much difference (although it did have partly sloped armour to the front) as the later models had a whopping 6" of armour, which is thicker than on a Tiger tank. Ironically, it was the 6 pounder (57mm) gun that was the more effective gun against armour, rather than the 75mm gun. The 6 pounder was a decent gun all round, once it got the APFS ammo, but it couldn't hurt the heavier German armour.

It is in logistical and engineering support I think the Churchill really shone, just google Churchill ARK images. They are hilarious, they were pretty much just driven into a gap, sometimes on top of each other, and then left there as a bridge. There was also bridge laying and armoured recovery vehicle variants which were logistically useful.

[grimmas]

Some seriously good off road capability as well. It was a Churchill that captured the first intact Tiger Tank which ain't bad. The Russians also liked the Valentine so much they asked us to keep producing it throughout the War. And let's not forget the Matilda was the "Queen of the Desert".

It's a damn shame the Germans went for Blitzkreig rather than trench warfare 🤔

The Black Prince is another huge vehicle. Should have just gone with the TOG II if they wanted a silly heavy tank.

[Haighus]

Some seriously good off road capability as well. It was a Churchill that captured the first intact Tiger Tank which ain't bad. The Russians also liked the Valentine so much they asked us to keep producing it throughout the War. And let's not forget the Matilda was the "Queen of the Desert".

It's a damn shame the Germans went for Blitzkreig rather than trench warfare 🤔

The Black Prince is another huge vehicle. Should have just gone with the TOG II if they wanted a silly heavy tank.

Not to mention the Cromwell was rapid for the time, fastest tank of WWII. It was so fast, they had to slow it down in the Comet version to prevent it from accidentally throwing it's tracks when driven badly...

[grimmas]

Well, they did make the 17 pounder Black Prince prototype, but it arrived pretty much at the same time as the superior Centurion. To be honest, the lack of sloped armour probably didn't make all that much difference (although it did have partly sloped armour to the front) as the later models had a whopping 6" of armour, which is thicker than on a Tiger tank. Ironically, it was the 6 pounder (57mm) gun that was the more effective gun against armour, rather than the 75mm gun. The 6 pounder was a decent gun all round, once it got the APFS ammo, but it couldn't hurt the heavier German armour.

It is in logistical and engineering support I think the Churchill really shone, just google Churchill ARK images. They are hilarious, they were pretty much just driven into a gap, sometimes on top of each other, and then left there as a bridge. There was also bridge laying and armoured recovery vehicle variants which were logistically useful.

The 75mm provided better infantry support as it could get a bigger HE shell as the 6lber was only 57mm (it was better against armour though)

[Haighus]

Yeah, it was the better all-round weapon, same reason the 75mm was used on the Cromwell too, although I wonder why they didn't use a few 6 pounders in the units to provide some anti-tank punch in addition to the 75mm. They had a similar set up in Sherman units with a Firefly supporting the standard Shermans.

Speaking of Fireflies, the Achilles is another similar conversion that was very successful and pretty cool looking. It is an up-gunned Wolverine using the same 17 pounder gun as the Firefly. Although strictly speaking a turreted tank destroyer...

[Psychosplodge]

I'm pretty sure priscilla was queen of the desert. Matilda liked a waltz.

[grimmas]

They made the A30 challenger with a 17pdr to provide that role to Cromwell units mainly because they needed a Cromwell chassis vehicle to keep up.

Also I think by that point in the war the 6pdrs extra penetration didn't really provide any practical benefit as the German tanks were armoured far beyond its capabilities generally and the places that could be penetrated could also be penetrated by the 75 mm so the better HE was more useful.

[Haighus]

They had to make a lot of compromises with the Challenger to get it to fit the 17pdr though. Problems they didn't overcome without modifying the gun to make the Comet.

[grimmas]

Yeah it was just a stop gap till they got the Comet out (which was in turn a stoppag till the centurion was sorted). It was the same with the firefly which I believe mounted the gun on its side to fit it in.

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Speaking of Fireflies, the Achilles is another similar conversion that was very successful and pretty cool looking. It is an up-gunned Wolverine using the same 17 pounder gun as the Firefly. Although strictly speaking a turreted tank destroyer...

British forces didn't even go that far they thought of it a a self propelled anti tank gun and used it as such.

The Archer takes the title for squeezing in the 17pdr in the most imaginative way, being as though is was a Valentine chassis with the gun facing backwards.