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  1. #1

    Default How many would it take? Our world vs 40k

    Mmm! Speculative fiction thread. You lucky Devils.

    Dunno why, but once again the dark, dank recesses of my mind have dredged up a conversation once had on Warseer, or maybe even Portent.

    In short, one poster was adamant that even a Space Marine Chapter couldn't take our planet - whether or not a miracle happened and the various armed forces all worked together. Now, I thought that was bunkum. I felt that the poster just wasn't taking into account how the Astartes wage war. I mean sure, in a stand up fight we've definitely got numbers on our side. Shame that a Chapter or even Strike Force would likely make good use of our complete lack of orbital defences, and promptly orbitallg bombard centres of military strength (Pentagon etc)

    But it did get me thinking - how would we fare against the other races out there? And indeed Marines, no reason to leave them out

    I'm hoping for fairly in depth posts here, rather than 'five Eldars kthxbai'
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  2. #2

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    I honestly don't think we would stand a chance against any of the big races currently. Aside from the fact that we have no orbital defenses, as you rightly point out, and would therefore be at the totaly mercy of any fleet, we just don't have the tech level, or even the numbers, to hold out. Take a single Guardsman, commonly taken to be one of the worst combatants in 40k. They are armed with a weapon that has the approximate hitting power of a .50 cal BMG round (although much less penetration), that has pinpoint accuracy without bullet dip or shot leading, a 100+ shot magazine capacity, a decent rate of fire and, importantly in a planet-wide war of conquest, excellent logistics with easily rechargeable ammo; their armour is capable of withstanding shots from that weapon, as well as the shrapnel from weapons that are pretty lethal to our soldiers- frag grenades and anti-personnel missiles; they have support weapons that make the armour mentioned look like paper; they come from a time where brutality is the norm, they have likely been recruited from a violent background, and they have no restrictions on the rules of war in the manner of the Geneva convention like we do, so they are likely to go that step further in order to acheive their aims. I think a single Regiment of Imperial Guard (somewhat Regiment dependent, as some are incompetent) is capable of bringing Earth into compliance.

    Space Marines would be unstoppable- it would take huge weight of fire or anti-tank weapons just to take out one Marine, and the psychological impact of their style of warfare would be massive. Soldiers today do not expect melee combat as a routine part of warfare, Space Marines would force it upon them through the strength of their armour and the speed of their assault.

    The only foe I think Earth would stand any chance against would perhaps be Tau, and only if it was a small force that for some reason was unwilling to use orbital assets to obliterate resistance. We would be technologically outmatched massively, but I feel this is a situation where weight of numbers and guerilla tactics could work, especially if Earth "joined" the Tau empire, but with the intention of secretly continuing a resistance movement. I don't think Tau forces are as logistically resilient as Guardsmen with their rechargeable ammunition. The fact the Tau offer one chance is the key difference with other alien factions here, the rest of the factions pretty much would just go for the throat straight away With Imperial forces, I guess the same could be said for feigning compliance, only to rebel after adopting Imperial tech.

    Oh, we might be able to resist isolated Dark Eldar raids, but not a true attack with the intention of taking the planet (my source for this is the villager killing Dark Eldar with a bolt-action rifle in one of the Uriel Ventris books, so they are possible to resist with limited tech).
    Last edited by Haighus; 09-13-2016 at 05:12 PM.
    In the nightmare future of the 41st millennium, there is no time for peace. No respite. No Balance. There is only War.

  3. #3
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    We couldn't resist Dark Eldar style raids, we could just outlast the vast majority of Kabals. They swoop in and take a few thousand slaves every couple of months. We can outbreed that. When Dark Eldar decide to become rulers of whole planets, they keep the existing infrastructure intact and just lop off the head of governance and replace it with their minions, and Earth isn't united enough for that.

    If they somehow decided they wanted to pacify it anyway - and usually that means there is something else interesting on the planet that they want, like if eucalyptus oil was a good base ingredient for a combat drug - they have a habit of culling the population to something they consider manageable first before putting in a governance structure and letting the population rebuild afterwards, knowing the young will be raised in terror of them. (Source: The Masque of Vyle.) Which they could easily do. They've got no qualms about dumping neurotoxins into every major city's atmosphere an hour after dusk in a wave circling the planet, then sitting back and letting the panic do most of the work for them.
    Kabal of Venomed Dreams

  4. #4

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    We're more than capable of killing a marine, our anti-tank weaponry could do the task and those saying we have no orbital defence appear to have forgotten all the ICBMs we have, which are by-definition capable of at least reaching Low Earth Orbit. They're slow and easily-intercepted though.

    A Marine strike would hit major targets first and cripple our ability to fight. By cutting the subsea fibre optic cables and destroying our satellite networks, global communication would cease and thus an effective, co-ordinated response would be impossible. Additionally, it's highly likely that the objective would simply be to cripple us enough in the first strike that the will to fight evaporates. Most of our firepower comes on naval platforms, which would be incredibly vulnerable to an orbital platform, and useless for a defensive campaign in a city. Not to mention the fact that their range is limited.

    We could probably get some good jabs back against them, perhaps flatten a Marine squad under artillery fire by luring them into a trap and sacrificing men. However most modern armies don't have the will to sustain the massive casualties necessary, and our belief, at least in NATO, in preserving lives over materiel would likely lose us the fight.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt View Post
    NATO
    POLITICS!!!

    Thread reported

  6. #6

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    If I could like posts... :P
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  7. #7
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    Is a space marine not traditionally considered to be worth 10 normal humans? Given auto weapons (guns, pistols, cannons etc) are directly analogous to modern infantry weapons - and that auto-weaponry can penetrate power armour - I think the sheer amount of people under arms in RL would overmatch a chapter if it landed. I think the only chance they would have would be to simultaneously capture world leaders - company strength assault on a G20 conference or some such - whilst the remainder secures a nuclear arsenal.

    The world is then held ransom to compliance.

    Beyond that, the only outright clear supremacy a chapter has is space based force - mebbe use the battlebarge/fleet to vaporise a few cities until the UN makes compliance happen?
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  8. #8

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    I think that's 'how many it would typically take in a straight gunfight' type scenario against well trained soldiers.

    Then there's the psychological impact of fighting a 40k army. Space Marines and Chaos Marines? Every shot, one of your squad mates explodes, whilst your fire doesn't seem to do owt.

    Likewise Eldar. I don't imagine a burst of Shuriken Fire is going to be at all pretty on the target. Dark Eldar? Arguably worse given they use a variety of 'entertaining' toxins.

    Orks? Let's face it, we're screwed. Horribly horribly screwed. Likewise Tyranids and even Necrons, due to how they fight or arrive.

    Pretty sure the sheer scale of an Astra Militarum landing would see us just sort of give up, even though one-on-one we could take them and their support for the most part (and don't underestimate the humble Lasgun. That's a horrible way to go. Flashburns, flesh vaporised in a local area. Yuck!)

    But going back to Astartes, I think the single biggest issue is just how do you effectively combat them? Straight up fight? They've got the skills and toys to avoid any but those they want (and if they want, be very very afraid). Guerilla efforts are no good, as I just can't see us hitting them anywhere near hard enough with those!
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  9. #9
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    The thing is that I can see astartes smashing the absolute feth out of a conventional deliberate attack - a squad of ten would probably hold off up to an infantry battalion. At that level, the battalion special weapons would come into play. I don't think you can suppress the astartes but anti tank assets, .50 cal sniper rifles etc would start to attrit them.

    Within close quarter they could murder almost anything but they can't dominate and hold large swathes of ground - essential for taking over the planet.

    Orks - an ork horde I think would almost be more difficult.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  10. #10

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    Astartes seem mostly about pacification than outright conquest, at least in the modern era.

    I think we can all agree that it it was Great Crusade, we'd be squished and complianced soon as they hit orbit.
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