2k pt nid deathstar

[synack]

You'd be better off with a Tyrant + guard + prime. Give the tyrant +2 save and watch marines squirm when they shoot krak missiles at you. Also harder to kill the tyrant as he's not an IC, so can't be singled in combat. Give the guard lash and the prime dual boneswords. Easy cover too for the tyrant, run gants in front. Dual devs on the tyrant works nicely too. 12 TL S6 shots a go, ot 6 + pshyic power.

[Fizyx]

Can you join a Prime to a Hive Tyrant? It is a unit normally consisting of a single model, where the Tyrant Guard are an exception.

In any case, I would put the Prime with the other warriors. It would increase their effectiveness substantially, both in CC and shooting. Also, Boneswords are so worth it. 10 points on a 80 point model to quite literally increase effectiveness vs. MEQ by 200%? Sign me the hell up.

Actually, scratch that, I wouldn't bring the Warriors at all (including the prime.) I would rather spend the points on some Genestealers.

[Fizyx]

Also, a little Mathammer on the crushing claws vs. the scything talons makes me realize that they are rarely, if ever, worth it. 25 points for just a slight increase of killability is just not worth it, especially when you attack last AND don't get to re-roll all dice when you are going up against that vehicle that moved 6.01" last turn.

[Pil]

You can attach primes to carnifexes just fine, reread the rules if youre confused, dont dereail my topic with a list that has nothing to do with whats posted then keep spamming it discussing said list.

c&c about the actual list please.

Thread: 2k pt nid deathstar

That is your topic. I gave you advice on a 2k pt list, that is not derailing anything. As for Primes joining a brood of Carnifex is questionable at best. I doubt you will get much hassle about it though in friendly games, but I would not be surprised if it was disallowed in a tournament. I know what the rule says the problem is there is no precedence for a monstrous creature unit (That I am aware of, please enlighten me if there is), and an IC joining it. The rule has always been IC can not join a monstrous creature. Personally I wouldn't care for the simple reason that it is the worse possible place for that prime to be attached.

If you want help on building a solid list maybe you could list all the models you have available and let people give you advice on how best to build around them with what you have. The list you posted is far from anything resembling a deathstar. Tervigon, Termants and Swarlord with Tyrant Guard defending your backfield is more on a deathstar level.

Also on a side note a Tyrant, including The Swarmlord, can join a brood of Tyrant Guard like an IC. But it can not detach from them, it can also be singled out in CC if you are in base contact with the Tyrant just like an IC. They do keep you in cover easier though and keep you safe from shooting for the most part. 2+ save on a Tyrant with Guard is really tough.

[Nom]

The rule has always been IC can not join a monstrous creature.

Rule book page 48 paragraph 1: "[Independent Characters] cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)." (Emphasis mine) A Carnifex brood with only one Carnifex is not a unit that always consists of a single model, thus it can be joined by an independent character.

Also on a side note a Tyrant, including The Swarmlord, can join a brood of Tyrant Guard like an IC. But it can not detach from them, it can also be singled out in CC if you are in base contact with the Tyrant just like an IC. They do keep you in cover easier though and keep you safe from shooting for the most part. 2+ save on a Tyrant with Guard is really tough.

Tyranid Codex, Page 35: "... may join a unit of Tyrant Guard exactly as if it were an independent character...". The only point the tyrant/SL uses the independent character rules is while joining the unit. The rest of the game, it is one cohesive unit. Thus, he cannot be singled out.

Also, currently, I run the unit that synack mentioned: HT w/OA Regen, LW&BS, 2+, with three Guards w/lash whips, and a prime with dual boneswords, regen, and rending claws.

[ashnaile]

I hadnt thought of the reduction of rerolls to ones by dropping the second pair of scytals ... nice catch lol ... crushing claws do seem almost worthless ...

If you think ics cant join mc units that dont always consist of a single model you need to go back and reread the rules please. This isnt a "beardy move" or a "rules lawyer thing to do".

This is plainly spelled out in simple terms, its understandable if you have a previous ed mindset where before there were no MC units that came in more than a single model, which came to the effect that you could never put an ic with a mc. But the situation has changed with the introduction of broods of mcs.

With the 50 pts from dropping the crushing claws id put regen on the trygon prime and either the mawloc or a tervigon, not sure, probably the mawloc?

[Pil]

Rule book page 48 paragraph 1: "[Independent Characters] cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons (see the Vehicles section) and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)." (Emphasis mine) A Carnifex brood with only one Carnifex is not a unit that always consists of a single model, thus it can be joined by an independent character.



Tyranid Codex, Page 35: "... may join a unit of Tyrant Guard exactly as if it were an independent character...". The only point the tyrant/SL uses the independent character rules is while joining the unit. The rest of the game, it is one cohesive unit. Thus, he cannot be singled out.

Also, currently, I run the unit that synack mentioned: HT w/OA Regen, LW&BS, 2+, with three Guards w/lash whips, and a prime with dual boneswords, regen, and rending claws.

I don't know and it really doesn't matter to me just saying a tournament organizer might say different is all. It needs to be faq'ed.

As for the Tyrant with guard I will tell you every tournament I have played in, including ard'boyz, the TO has ruled it can be picked out since the rule clearly stats it joins like an IC, and an IC can be picked out when base to base in close combat.

Anyways lets not sweat this to much no good player is going to be attaching primes to carnifex, or running their Tyrant out in a position to get charged by something that can gank it.Lets worry more about convincing the OP to put his primes in with the warriors or maybe a unit of venomthropes. Actually 2 broods of 2 venomthropes with the 2 primes joined to one each would make this list much stronger. See if you can play test your list with that suggestion and tell us if it isn't better.

[ashnaile]

... It does not need to be faq'd ... its spelled out in plain english, if you cant grasp it or your to cant, send them to remedial english classes.

For one this isnt my only list, so dont try to convince me to make a "good" list. I have that, the point of this is to make THIS list better, a variant that im able to run with the models i have from my main force.

Also, venomthropes are garbage and youre not as you put it a "good" player if you use them imho. Wasting the most valuable FOC slot in your codex is not what good players do. And if you build a list around the fact that you wasted an elites slot to mitigate the fact you dont have as much hguard/zoeys then your list most likely is terrible.


Dont meant to sound so confrontational but this part really got my goat ....
"Anyways lets not sweat this to much no good player is going to be attaching primes to carnifex" ....

Player who gives positive rating of venomthropes probably shouldnt be speaking with knowledge of what "good players" would do.

[Fizyx]

As for the Tyrant with guard I will tell you every tournament I have played in, including ard'boyz, the TO has ruled it can be picked out since the rule clearly stats it joins like an IC, and an IC can be picked out when base to base in close combat.

No, the codex clearly states it joins "as if it were an independent character." The rule is written very poorly, but what is clear is that if it has to join "as if it were," then it most certainly is not an independent character, even after joining the brood of Guard. Your Tournament organizer was probably just trying to quell the anger of the majority of players who were not playing Tyranids. It will hopefully be addressed in the next FAQ.

In any case, the fact is Carnifex + Tryanid Prime is kind of a waste. I see absolutely no reason to do it. Today I ran a brood of 6 warriors w/ boneswords with an attached prime (also with bone swords) and they kicked more *** than you could ever imagine. Of course I was facing almost no S8 in CC, so I knew they would, but still. Jesus.

Attaching a Prime to a Hive Tyrant, however, is a fabulous idea. Next time I run without warriors I will have to give it a try. At first I thought it was illegal, until I realized the Prime was attaching to the Guard, not the Tyrant.

[ashnaile]

warriors in close combat can be a risky thing, each power fist that smacks you is 3 wounds for purposes of combat resolution .... a lucky sarge and you just lost combat by 5-10 even if you kicked the squads teeth in and only left one or two standing.

That being said i use warriors in all my tyranid lists, though with lashwhip and sword or just dual swords theyre too expensive, other units can be a dedicated cc unit for medium infantry, and for better points efficiency. Also Warriors will bounce off things that the fex unit will leave as a red stain on the ground.

As for prime with the tyrant guard i hadnt thought of that, although a tyrant unit with guard hardly needs any more killability lol ....