Local Tournaments are getting weird

[DarkLink]

Doesn't matter what GW says. Doesn't matter how many other people like it. Doesn't matter if painting is a fringe activity or not.


If you don't like painting, no one has the right to force you to do it, and no one should ever expect that you should like painting just because they do.

[Dionysus]

No one is "forcing" you to paint your army. If you don't like painting, don't paint. Just know there will be some tourneys that are focused on the hobby side of this game more that the competitive side, if you read the website for this tourney this is clearly one of them. Obviously this tourney is not for you.

There are plenty of tournament in my area that don't require painting and that painting scores are held separate from the game scores. If there are none of these in your area either there isn't much draw for them or you need to go talk to some lgs owners and let them know they are missing out.

Think about this though, if a professional sports player showed up to a game without a uniform, would they let him play? Should they let him play? He has the same ability, and can do the same things he could do if he had the uniform on. So why should he have a uniform? Obviously there are a lot of reasons for this, but a big one is pride in your work.

40k is not a video game that you buy for 60 bucks, plug it in and play with your friends. If you don't like to hobby, why play a game where even the creators of the game say its not meant for competitive play? Instead of trying to make all of the tourneys out there adjust to your view of how this game should be played, go pick up a game that meets your requirements. Its that simple.

This isn't an issue I normally speak up about. It just boggles the mind though that there are so many people out there that spend so much money on little army men and plastic modeling kits, and then ***** when people expect them to actually put the stuff together and slap a few coats of paint on it.

I know i will never change anyones mind, and we can all agree to disagree, just had to say something as this seems to be creeping up again in several forums (ironically so close to 'ard boyz, a huge tourney that had no painting requirement and was nation wide.) No animosity is intended here, and as always ill play any army, painted or not, that is put in front of me. Just some thoughts.

*Dismounts from soap box*

[Melissia]

Blah blah blah, etc etc etc. Your argument falls apart in the face of fact, Dionysus

In order to participate in COMPETITIVE GAMING, you are FORCED to paint. In order to participate in completely separate portion of the hobby, you must paint. This is undeniable, it's literally part of the complaint.

Tell me, how would painting enthusiasts react if golden daemon required the people who submitted their entries to also win 'ard boyz tournaments and get into the finals in order to participate? I'm fairly certain that the painting enthusiasts would drop golden daemon in a ****ing heartbeat. But why would they do that, it's not like anyone was forcing them to participate in tournaments!

No, because Golden Daemon is a pure painting competition. What the gamers want is a pure gaming competition.


You can have both in the same tournament. The painters/modelers get their competition, and the gamers get theirs. And both groups are happy. I don't know why people are so avidly against this idea, but then, I don't claim to understand the minds of illogical people.

[Old_Paladin]

Mel, your argument doesn't hold up very well either.
There are many tournies that require little, to no, painting and have no painting 'soft scores'

There are clearly different set-ups
'Pure gaming': It's all about who wins the games ('Ard Boyz).
'Hobby gaming': That range from mainly gaming, with some painting and sportsmanship; to ones that have painting and sportsmanship really affect the outcome.
'Pure Painting'.


'Ard Boyz only requires you show up with fully assembled models, then it's all about who plays the best.

[Melissia]

Mel, your argument doesn't hold up very well either.
There are many tournies that require little, to no, painting and have no painting 'soft scores'

There are clearly different set-ups
'Pure gaming': It's all about who wins the games ('Ard Boyz).
'Hobby gaming': That range from mainly gaming, with some painting and sportsmanship; to ones that have painting and sportsmanship really affect the outcome.
'Pure Painting'.


'Ard Boyz only requires you show up with fully assembled models, then it's all about who plays the best.

And how does this do anything to diminish my argument in any way?

Oh wait, it doesn't. In fact, I'm thinking you're actually agreeing with me without even realizing you are. The fact that there are a few tournaments that are purely competitive gaming doesn't change the conclusion of my post at all, in actuality it only enhances it-- why would, for example, a painting hobbyist want to participate in 'Ard Boyz?

The existence of 'Ard Boyz and Golden Daemon, however, doesn't really change the complaints about the seeming majority of tournaments, which try to mix the various aspects of the hobby into one tournament-- something which can be done, but these tournaments fail miserably at it. And my post argued the best way to fix this is to have two separate competitions in these tournies, one for gaming and one for painting. One can even have a "Best overall", which combines the two, but in the end the separation should be made so that people who are not into one aspect of a tournament can still enjoy the others without being penalized.

[Old_Paladin]

Except that one of your complaints is that "you are FORCED to paint, in oder to play"

You're wrong about that (or maybe it's just the area you play in; in my area, painting is encouraged, but not forced or penalized if you don't).

In the most competative games you don't need to paint at all, in the majority of hobby games you don't need to paint at all.

In some hobby tournies you might not get 'best overall' if you don't bother to paint, but I will deny you're statement that "In order to participate in completely separate portion of the hobby, you must paint."

You don't have to paint if you don't want to; just go for fun, or go for best General, or just go to play at all. But you don't have to paint to play. You just can't claim to be the best in the hobby if you don't partake in all aspects of the hobby.

[Melissia]

Which is fine, but it isn't what the majority of people experience given how common such complaints are. So I suppose your area is more mature in their tournaments (but then, that's Canada for you).

[Old_Paladin]

Which is fine, but it isn't what the majority of people experience given how common such complaints are. So I suppose your area is more mature in their tournaments (but then, that's Canada for you).

Ha, that makes me laugh a little.
My local area might be fine for that, but you need to look up Astromoni-Con.

It actually won't let you play if you don't have a fully painted, using a min. 3 colour standard. It's the one time your statement about paint to play is actually true (not painted... then go home!).
78 points out of 200 are for actual game play. The rest in painting, attitude, list building and list presentation (yes, up to ten points based on how good the paper copies of your army list are formatted and decorated!)

And this is Canada's big national tournie; it's the major events for gaming here.

[Melissia]

Here it appears to be the opposite... it'sthe big tournies-- 'ard boyz, golden daemon-- which are focused and specialized, while the little ones are general.

[BlacknightIII]

From the sound of all the commotion I might be tempted to ask my LGS if I can have one of his tournement sheets to make a PDF out of so other stores can use it. Its very simple and basic.

Round 1 seize ground
Round 2 Capture and control
Round 3 Annihilation

Major Victory - 5 points
Minor Victory - 3 points
Draw - 1 point
Loss - 0

There are some secondary objectives he will throw in like take out the enemy HQ for 1 point or destroy most expensive unit for 1 point and everything is cleary defined as to what he means by major, minor, and draw. As well as defining the meanings for the secondary objectives. He does this so that he is the rules lawyer and you are playing by his rules.

There are no soft scores, no painting, no sportsmanship. If you think your opponent was a bad sport or had a well painted army then its up to you to be the adult and tell him.