BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1

    Default Historical/Literary/Conceptual Sources For Space Chapters/Legions - HELP NEEDED

    Hey All

    I've been trying to figure out a sort of 'complete' list of the major sources/inspirations for various Space Marine chapters and certain imperial army units. I want to figure this out, especially for the 18 Legions/First Founding Chapters! So please add your thoughts. Mine are below, in no particular order.

    NOTE: these are observations of *overall* qualities -- individual characters may not fit into any of these 'conceptions'.

    NOTE 2: forgive any typos, missing words, etc.

    (A) FIRST FOUNDING LEGIONS/CHAPTER

    DARK ANGELS: monastic orders of knights, maybe in particular templar knights as conceived by centuries of conspiracy theorists

    BLOOD ANGELS: everyone says 'vampires', and that's there, but I don't find that convincing. Perhaps a "Fallen Angels" or "Fallible Angels" concept -- they're angels until they tragically succumb to their 'demonic' (not actual Daemonic) nature. FYI, I think this vagueness reflects in the fluff - the description/conception of the Blood Angels can wander a bit from fluff source to fluff source.

    SPACE WOLVES: vikings

    RAVEN GUARD: a chapter/legion with multiple key influences. Some say native americans, but that's just window dressing. Real inspirations is (x) the ideals and philosophies of democratic insurgents/rebels using stealth to overthrow tyranny and (y) ninjas (yes, ninjas) - all that striking from the shadows, stealth, etc. This is actually a pretty solid mix because in both cases, it's a about committed individuals using what they can to overcome overwhelming brute force and power.

    ULTRAMARINES: Roman legionaries (and 500 worlds is idealized Roman empire).

    IMPERIAL FISTS: best argument I've heard for them is the Prussian officer class, though I don't know enough about that group to confirm.

    WHITE SCARS: Mongol cavalry warriors of Ghengis Khan and his sons

    IRON HANDS: people have suggested Transhumanism. But I also think that the *major* inspiration is the classic conception of the ancient Spartans: absolutely single-mindedness in their pursuit of war; hatred of weakness, *especially* in the self, and obsession with removing the 'weak' elements (of themselves and/or the Imperium); contempt for failure; a general intolerance, lack of interest in and disregard and contempt for of those who do not share their philosophies, even if those are allies; and, no mercy, empathy or compassion;

    *** SALAMANDERS: I'm gonna say a bunch here because the Salamanders are a real mix of stuff of inspirations (as can be seen in the fluff): current conceptions of 'noble, good African/African-American men' -- something that has shown up in movies, tv, books, as a (deserved) rebuke of far uglier conceptions of black men. I don't know if it's there in UK culture, but definitely in US/Can culture -- a conception of strong, proud but modest, *good* men who *protect* their families. If the Imperial Fists are the concept of Defenders of Walls, the Salamanders are the concept of Defenders of People (of humanity), and it is defense they will *never* give up.

    However, you also have the following elements mixed in: (a) this is the "African' legion/chapter, with a huge amount of African imagery, etc. -- these guys are literally black, red eyed (very exotic, not Caucasian), their names seem to sound 'African', the notion of hot desserts, volcanos. their embodiment of a hot weather creature - a lizard, and the whole notion of ELEMENTAL warriors: volcanoes, hammers (stone), flamers -- not the finery of Blood Angels or Emperor's Children, the civilization of the Ultramarines. Then you have the forge imagery, which cause along with the heat/fire/volcano imagery but not quite exactly. AND THEN you also have this focus on pragmatism that undercuts the notion of taking their principles to a 'fanatical' extreme -- even when they sacrifice themselves, it is because it is *necessary,* not because of some fanatic obsession or strange dream.

    Note: I think that fluff-wise, these mix of sources has ended up being bland -- the intensity/craziness of some of these characteristics gets sabotaged/watered down by the defender/pragmatist elements. In short, like the concept but needs work.


    SONS OF HORUS (HH period): actually, these guys are hard for me to place. On one hand, supposedly Cthonian gangs that lead to incredibly aggressive shock troops, but that gang-like aggression does not really follow through in other fluff so much. I get the sense more than anything that these guys are 'the natural leader' guys when dealing with any other marines.

    WORLD EATERS: a lot of people say roman gladiators, but i think better source concept is Barbarian Killers who care *nothing* for civilization.

    1000 SONS: people say ancient Egypt, and that's certainly true for the *look*, but I think in HH fluff et al, better description is ancient Babylon, with its particular brand of mystic culture. Also, of course, the story of Faust.

    ALPHA LEGION: more than anything, special forces/psych ops/military intelligence.

    NIGHT LORDS: yes, they are from conception of "terror troops", but really this is an army of genuine psychopaths and sociopaths -- no love, no loyalty except complete self-interest to each other, etc.

    DEATH GUARD: not sure if there's a specific source. But the idea of an unstoppable army of soldiers, able to soak up *any* amount of damage, indefatigable, unstoppable, able to endure the conditions of any battlefield (i.e. zone mortalis) no matter how horrible the conditions (radiation, plague, etc.). While the post-HH impression speaks a lot of their Nurgle qualities, those all still fit with the characteristics I've listed here.

    WORD BEARERS: no particular historical source, but the concept of 'fanatic cult warriors' led by 'evil, evil priests.' I think of the warriors of the evil priests in the Conan the Barbarian movies, but upgrade those to be super soldiers instead of warriors that Conan can easily beat.

    IRON WARRIORS: this might surprise people, but I think the best fit the west's conception of post-WW II Soviet armies. The focus on concrete, on the overwhelming power and mastery of massive artillery and on tanks (i.e. Kursk and beyond), on the yellow of warning tape, rather than anything aesthetic, and the officers/leadings acting out of ambition for power and rank within that framework rather than inspiration, . When I think Iron Warriors I think of cold industry lacking in all humanity -- i.e. what we think all those Soviet factories were like -- all functional, no room for beauty, with soldiers acting out of discipline, order, conformity.

    EMPEROR'S CHILDREN: Pre-HH: French (?) aristocrats of Louis XIV-XVI, pursuit of aristocratic notions of excellence and excelling but combined with all the style, arrogance, wealth and *finery* you imagine rich aristocrats to have -- you never imagine any of these guys, even pre-HH, living a modest or monastic lifestyle -- obsessed with pleasure, etc. Post-HH Same as before but obsessed by *perversions* in the pursuit of pleasure.


    (B) CERTAIN SECOND FOUNDING CHAPTERS (not all listed, please add)

    GREY KNIGHTS: Paladins a la dungeons and dragons.

    SILVER SKULLS: Maori

    BLACK TEMPLARS: conception of crusader knights fighting far off in the Holy Land

    ** CHARCARADONS/SPACE SHARKS: they have a very specific character -- inscrutable, savage, but ultimately serving the Emperor -- but I just can't place the source.

    IRON SNAKES: Homeric greeks of the Illiad, not the Peloponessian Wars Spartans. Someone said Spartans once, but there seems to be more genuine joy, arrete, warm brotherhood than that in their depictions.

    ** DOOM EAGLES: they also have a very specific character -- only by total resignation do they pass on to fight -- but I just can't place the source.

    DEATHWATCH: superhero terms, of course . Think X-Men, Avengers -- diverse powers, skills, backgrounds, styles, philosophies, combining to make something superior to just one chapter alone.

    FLESH TEARERS: Wolverine, especially in the early dangers. Frenzied, addicted to the brutality of war, but still (secretly?) longing for redemption.

    LEGION OF THE DAMNED: stories of spectral warriors unstoppably coming for needed vengeance/brutal justice on behalf of those who have suffered.

    STORM WARDENS: Scottish highland warriors?

    BLACK DRAGONS: X-men in the sense of feared mutants that use their mutations to defend humanity.


    (C) CERTAIN IMPERIAL GUARD FORCES (please add others)

    VOSTROYAN FIRST BORN: Russia army of 18th/19th Centuries

    CATCHACANS: US jungle solders in Vietnam

    13TH PENAL LEGION (LAST CHANCERS): movies like the Dirty Dozen, etc.

    ATTILAN ROUGH RIDERS: Mongols

    TANITH FIRST AND ONLY: Welsh/Gaelic/pre-anglo-saxon Britain

    CADIANS: some people say Wehrmacht, and I would agree except without the **** element. To be fair, everything in the Imperium is totally fascist but Cadians are really depicted as an army of good, not of conquering evil.

    ELYSIAN DROP TROOPERS: parachute drops, more modern special forces-y than WW2.

    DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG: a conception of German (maybe also British) soldiers in WW1

    MORDIAN IRON GUARD: 19th Century Britons? 19th Century British Army?

    NECROMUNDANS: street gangers inducted into the army

    TALLARN: Arabian, Muslim soldiers

  2. #2
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    The Dark Angels are a better fit for the 'fallen angel' archetype than the Blood Angels. Notably most of their major figures have Hebrew names and most of those names are angelic in origin. They also embody the archetype of 'hidden, shameful secrets'; they're named after the poem "The Dark Angel" written by Lionel Johnson, which is about the author struggling with "thine aching lust" (he was the lover of Oscar Wilde at a time when homosexuality was illegal. And also a Catholic, so masses of guilt about it).
    Kabal of Venomed Dreams

  3. #3

    Default

    Ok, that's a great catch, especially the Lionel Johnson name catch. So two follow on thoughts:

    - the Dark Angels as a 'concept' may have migrated/evolved from the Lionel Johnson start. Specifically, the obsession with secrets and conspiracies does not fit into the "The Dark Angel", so I think the Knights Templar of conspiracy theorists still applies here. Like a mix of the two concepts?

    - what, then, works for the Blood Angels? Maybe "Conflicted Angels"? Obviously, they are meant to be that notion of Christian Angels -- so beautiful (in a more or less humanly form), compassionate, awe-inspiring, etc. Like I'm pretty sure there is a novel or book that articulates this archetype - I just can't remember it. Any thoughts? It's not Lucifer -- because, whatever their faults, it isn't pride. Instead, it's the notion of these 'truly beautiful beings' (at least in concept) always struggling to resist the horror of their impulses and appetites. What book/movie/TV series has characters like this???

  4. #4
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Honestly, plain old christian angels work just fine for Blood Angels. Remember that the 'modern' ideal of angels as beautiful winged humans is just that: a modern concept, one that really kicked off around the Middle Ages. Biblical angels could appear human for short periods (see the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah) but their 'default' form was terrifying and sublime. Every time an angel appears to a human in the Bible their first words are "don't be afraid". The reaction of most Guard units that have fought beside the Blood Angels and lived is "that was a holy experience and I never ever want to do that again."

    I think a better representation of the Blood Angels is how doing the right thing can be a 'mistake' in a grimdark universe, how everything good can be used to harm. They make beautiful artwork- and it's in the form of artisan weapons. They try to treat humans as people- which intensifies the guilt when they slip they slaughter innocents. They experience psychic visions of what is held to be their primarch's greatest ever deed- which sends them into the Black Rage. Even Sanguinius suffers this, as he was the only one that thought Horus could be saved and spent his last hour trying to talk his brother around, and that meant his guard was lowered and allowed Horus to cut him down while suffering only a single, minor wound. (Because yes, Horus fully charged up on daemonic energy was always going to win that fight, but Sanguinius had gone toe to toe with greater daemons of Khorne in hand-to-hand combat; if it had been a straight fight Horus would have had to work a lot harder for that victory.) Even the greatest victory of the Blood Angels, the one they're most known for, was the occasion that every last one of them went into something very like the Black Rage and accomplished in hours what had been taken the Legion weeks.
    Kabal of Venomed Dreams

  5. #5

    Default

    I think that's a pretty fair assessment. But - as per my exercise - are there any particular sources that set out a set of characters or archetype like this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgrim View Post
    Honestly, plain old christian angels work just fine for Blood Angels. Remember that the 'modern' ideal of angels as beautiful winged humans is just that: a modern concept, one that really kicked off around the Middle Ages. Biblical angels could appear human for short periods (see the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah) but their 'default' form was terrifying and sublime. Every time an angel appears to a human in the Bible their first words are "don't be afraid". The reaction of most Guard units that have fought beside the Blood Angels and lived is "that was a holy experience and I never ever want to do that again."

    I think a better representation of the Blood Angels is how doing the right thing can be a 'mistake' in a grimdark universe, how everything good can be used to harm. They make beautiful artwork- and it's in the form of artisan weapons. They try to treat humans as people- which intensifies the guilt when they slip they slaughter innocents. They experience psychic visions of what is held to be their primarch's greatest ever deed- which sends them into the Black Rage. Even Sanguinius suffers this, as he was the only one that thought Horus could be saved and spent his last hour trying to talk his brother around, and that meant his guard was lowered and allowed Horus to cut him down while suffering only a single, minor wound. (Because yes, Horus fully charged up on daemonic energy was always going to win that fight, but Sanguinius had gone toe to toe with greater daemons of Khorne in hand-to-hand combat; if it had been a straight fight Horus would have had to work a lot harder for that victory.) Even the greatest victory of the Blood Angels, the one they're most known for, was the occasion that every last one of them went into something very like the Black Rage and accomplished in hours what had been taken the Legion weeks.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey, just pinging again for more suggestions/feedback on the list below.

    Why do I care? 40k as a universe is super interesting, super compelling, in part because it is so idiosyncratic and includes within it so many different landscapes and fictional conceptions of the future and past. And those come from distinct influences and sources as much as everything else, even if after they got introduced into the 40k universe, they change and grow on their own.



    Quote Originally Posted by MGNY View Post
    Hey All

    I've been trying to figure out a sort of 'complete' list of the major sources/inspirations for various Space Marine chapters and certain imperial army units. I want to figure this out, especially for the 18 Legions/First Founding Chapters! So please add your thoughts. Mine are below, in no particular order.

    NOTE: these are observations of *overall* qualities -- individual characters may not fit into any of these 'conceptions'.

    NOTE 2: forgive any typos, missing words, etc.

    (A) FIRST FOUNDING LEGIONS/CHAPTER

    DARK ANGELS: monastic orders of knights, maybe in particular templar knights as conceived by centuries of conspiracy theorists

    BLOOD ANGELS: everyone says 'vampires', and that's there, but I don't find that convincing. Perhaps a "Fallen Angels" or "Fallible Angels" concept -- they're angels until they tragically succumb to their 'demonic' (not actual Daemonic) nature. FYI, I think this vagueness reflects in the fluff - the description/conception of the Blood Angels can wander a bit from fluff source to fluff source.

    SPACE WOLVES: vikings

    RAVEN GUARD: a chapter/legion with multiple key influences. Some say native americans, but that's just window dressing. Real inspirations is (x) the ideals and philosophies of democratic insurgents/rebels using stealth to overthrow tyranny and (y) ninjas (yes, ninjas) - all that striking from the shadows, stealth, etc. This is actually a pretty solid mix because in both cases, it's a about committed individuals using what they can to overcome overwhelming brute force and power.

    ULTRAMARINES: Roman legionaries (and 500 worlds is idealized Roman empire).

    IMPERIAL FISTS: best argument I've heard for them is the Prussian officer class, though I don't know enough about that group to confirm.

    WHITE SCARS: Mongol cavalry warriors of Ghengis Khan and his sons

    IRON HANDS: people have suggested Transhumanism. But I also think that the *major* inspiration is the classic conception of the ancient Spartans: absolutely single-mindedness in their pursuit of war; hatred of weakness, *especially* in the self, and obsession with removing the 'weak' elements (of themselves and/or the Imperium); contempt for failure; a general intolerance, lack of interest in and disregard and contempt for of those who do not share their philosophies, even if those are allies; and, no mercy, empathy or compassion;

    *** SALAMANDERS: I'm gonna say a bunch here because the Salamanders are a real mix of stuff of inspirations (as can be seen in the fluff): current conceptions of 'noble, good African/African-American men' -- something that has shown up in movies, tv, books, as a (deserved) rebuke of far uglier conceptions of black men. I don't know if it's there in UK culture, but definitely in US/Can culture -- a conception of strong, proud but modest, *good* men who *protect* their families. If the Imperial Fists are the concept of Defenders of Walls, the Salamanders are the concept of Defenders of People (of humanity), and it is defense they will *never* give up.

    However, you also have the following elements mixed in: (a) this is the "African' legion/chapter, with a huge amount of African imagery, etc. -- these guys are literally black, red eyed (very exotic, not Caucasian), their names seem to sound 'African', the notion of hot desserts, volcanos. their embodiment of a hot weather creature - a lizard, and the whole notion of ELEMENTAL warriors: volcanoes, hammers (stone), flamers -- not the finery of Blood Angels or Emperor's Children, the civilization of the Ultramarines. Then you have the forge imagery, which cause along with the heat/fire/volcano imagery but not quite exactly. AND THEN you also have this focus on pragmatism that undercuts the notion of taking their principles to a 'fanatical' extreme -- even when they sacrifice themselves, it is because it is *necessary,* not because of some fanatic obsession or strange dream.

    Note: I think that fluff-wise, these mix of sources has ended up being bland -- the intensity/craziness of some of these characteristics gets sabotaged/watered down by the defender/pragmatist elements. In short, like the concept but needs work.


    SONS OF HORUS (HH period): actually, these guys are hard for me to place. On one hand, supposedly Cthonian gangs that lead to incredibly aggressive shock troops, but that gang-like aggression does not really follow through in other fluff so much. I get the sense more than anything that these guys are 'the natural leader' guys when dealing with any other marines.

    WORLD EATERS: a lot of people say roman gladiators, but i think better source concept is Barbarian Killers who care *nothing* for civilization.

    1000 SONS: people say ancient Egypt, and that's certainly true for the *look*, but I think in HH fluff et al, better description is ancient Babylon, with its particular brand of mystic culture. Also, of course, the story of Faust.

    ALPHA LEGION: more than anything, special forces/psych ops/military intelligence.

    NIGHT LORDS: yes, they are from conception of "terror troops", but really this is an army of genuine psychopaths and sociopaths -- no love, no loyalty except complete self-interest to each other, etc.

    DEATH GUARD: not sure if there's a specific source. But the idea of an unstoppable army of soldiers, able to soak up *any* amount of damage, indefatigable, unstoppable, able to endure the conditions of any battlefield (i.e. zone mortalis) no matter how horrible the conditions (radiation, plague, etc.). While the post-HH impression speaks a lot of their Nurgle qualities, those all still fit with the characteristics I've listed here.

    WORD BEARERS: no particular historical source, but the concept of 'fanatic cult warriors' led by 'evil, evil priests.' I think of the warriors of the evil priests in the Conan the Barbarian movies, but upgrade those to be super soldiers instead of warriors that Conan can easily beat.

    IRON WARRIORS: this might surprise people, but I think the best fit the west's conception of post-WW II Soviet armies. The focus on concrete, on the overwhelming power and mastery of massive artillery and on tanks (i.e. Kursk and beyond), on the yellow of warning tape, rather than anything aesthetic, and the officers/leadings acting out of ambition for power and rank within that framework rather than inspiration, . When I think Iron Warriors I think of cold industry lacking in all humanity -- i.e. what we think all those Soviet factories were like -- all functional, no room for beauty, with soldiers acting out of discipline, order, conformity.

    EMPEROR'S CHILDREN: Pre-HH: French (?) aristocrats of Louis XIV-XVI, pursuit of aristocratic notions of excellence and excelling but combined with all the style, arrogance, wealth and *finery* you imagine rich aristocrats to have -- you never imagine any of these guys, even pre-HH, living a modest or monastic lifestyle -- obsessed with pleasure, etc. Post-HH Same as before but obsessed by *perversions* in the pursuit of pleasure.


    (B) CERTAIN SECOND FOUNDING CHAPTERS (not all listed, please add)

    GREY KNIGHTS: Paladins a la dungeons and dragons.

    SILVER SKULLS: Maori

    BLACK TEMPLARS: conception of crusader knights fighting far off in the Holy Land

    ** CHARCARADONS/SPACE SHARKS: they have a very specific character -- inscrutable, savage, but ultimately serving the Emperor -- but I just can't place the source.

    IRON SNAKES: Homeric greeks of the Illiad, not the Peloponessian Wars Spartans. Someone said Spartans once, but there seems to be more genuine joy, arrete, warm brotherhood than that in their depictions.

    ** DOOM EAGLES: they also have a very specific character -- only by total resignation do they pass on to fight -- but I just can't place the source.

    DEATHWATCH: superhero terms, of course . Think X-Men, Avengers -- diverse powers, skills, backgrounds, styles, philosophies, combining to make something superior to just one chapter alone.

    FLESH TEARERS: Wolverine, especially in the early dangers. Frenzied, addicted to the brutality of war, but still (secretly?) longing for redemption.

    LEGION OF THE DAMNED: stories of spectral warriors unstoppably coming for needed vengeance/brutal justice on behalf of those who have suffered.

    STORM WARDENS: Scottish highland warriors?

    BLACK DRAGONS: X-men in the sense of feared mutants that use their mutations to defend humanity.


    (C) CERTAIN IMPERIAL GUARD FORCES (please add others)

    VOSTROYAN FIRST BORN: Russia army of 18th/19th Centuries

    CATCHACANS: US jungle solders in Vietnam

    13TH PENAL LEGION (LAST CHANCERS): movies like the Dirty Dozen, etc.

    ATTILAN ROUGH RIDERS: Mongols

    TANITH FIRST AND ONLY: Welsh/Gaelic/pre-anglo-saxon Britain

    CADIANS: some people say Wehrmacht, and I would agree except without the **** element. To be fair, everything in the Imperium is totally fascist but Cadians are really depicted as an army of good, not of conquering evil.

    ELYSIAN DROP TROOPERS: parachute drops, more modern special forces-y than WW2.

    DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG: a conception of German (maybe also British) soldiers in WW1

    MORDIAN IRON GUARD: 19th Century Britons? 19th Century British Army?

    NECROMUNDANS: street gangers inducted into the army

    TALLARN: Arabian, Muslim soldiers

  6. #6

    Default

    1000 SONS: people say ancient Egypt, and that's certainly true for the *look*, but I think in HH fluff et al, better description is ancient Babylon, with its particular brand of mystic culture. Also, of course, the story of Faust.
    The look is Ancient Egypt, but nothing much else is. The Egyptians were obsessed with Death, rather than Knowledge. Culturally, Ancient Greece, specifically Athens, seems to be a better fit. Ahriman's most famous quote - "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance" is a real-life quotation by Socrates, though he didn't mean the same thing by it. Also, Magnus very heavily based upon the King of the Norse gods, Odin - Both sacrificed an eye as a part of a never-ending quest for knowledge and magical power. more here: http://norse-mythology.org/tales/why-odin-is-one-eyed/)

    IMPERIAL FISTS: best argument I've heard for them is the Prussian officer class, though I don't know enough about that group to confirm.
    Prussian connection is canon I believe - something about an "ancient Prussic code of honor". The culture fits to an extent, though it seems to be a bit confused, but their combat preferences don't seem to fit Prussia much for me though,given the Prussian preference for taking the initiative offensively, and avoiding long drawn out conflicts. I'd argue that they're closer to the Napoleonic era British in combat, with Fortification Building (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lines_of_Torres_Vedras), a reputation for extreme, painful discipline, more bolter/musket practice than anyone else, and superior fleet resources. I could be wrong though.


    DEATH GUARD: not sure if there's a specific source. But the idea of an unstoppable army of soldiers, able to soak up *any* amount of damage, indefatigable, unstoppable, able to endure the conditions of any battlefield (i.e. zone mortalis) no matter how horrible the conditions (radiation, plague, etc.). While the post-HH impression speaks a lot of their Nurgle qualities, those all still fit with the characteristics I've listed here.
    I'd go Western Front of World War 1 here - given the chemical weapons, direct Infantry attacks etc. Given that the DG have been depicted wearing Pickelhaube (spikes on the top of their helmets) I'd say they're more German than British/French, even though both sides used chemical weapons.

    WORLD EATERS: a lot of people say roman gladiators, but i think better source concept is Barbarian Killers who care *nothing* for civilization.
    Angron's story is heavily based on Spartacus, and the Third Servile War.

    DARK ANGELS: monastic orders of knights, maybe in particular templar knights as conceived by centuries of conspiracy theorists
    the degrees of initiation, with secret knowledge revealed at each one, reminds me of Freemasonry (which connect itself to the Knights Templar) as much as the Templars themselves.

    BLOOD ANGELS: everyone says 'vampires', and that's there, but I don't find that convincing. Perhaps a "Fallen Angels" or "Fallible Angels" concept -- they're angels until they tragically succumb to their 'demonic' (not actual Daemonic) nature. FYI, I think this vagueness reflects in the fluff - the description/conception of the Blood Angels can wander a bit from fluff source to fluff source.
    A combination of vampirism and the Italian renaissance for me. The names, aesthetics and cultural practices (art, poetry etc) all fit this.

    BLACK TEMPLARS: conception of crusader knights fighting far off in the Holy Land
    Specifically the Teutonic Order, whose heraldry they've borrowed.

    CHARCARADONS/SPACE SHARKS: they have a very specific character -- inscrutable, savage, but ultimately serving the Emperor -- but I just can't place the source.
    Strong Polynesian influences - markings, tattoos etc.

  7. #7

    Default

    Dupe
    Last edited by Wolfshade; 04-17-2017 at 04:56 AM.

  8. #8

    Default

    A Couple more:

    Night Lords - background is based on Joseph Conrad's Book "Heart of Darkness", and its movie adaptation, "Apocalypse Now". The Primarch's name is taken from the last name of the author, as well as that of the primary antagonist, Kurtz. In 40k, The Nighthaunter's assassin was called M'Shen. In Apocalypse Now Kurtz's assassin is played by Martin Sheen. The book's theme is the savagery and hypocrisy which lie behind imperialism.

    Missing Legions - based on a number of Roman Legions. Firstly, the three (17th, 18th and 19th) which were destroyed at the battle of Teutoburg Forest in 9AD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...utoburg_Forest), whose numbers were never reused following the disaster, as they were considered cursed. Secondly, on Legio IX Hispana (Spanish 9th Legion), which disappears from the Historical Record after 120AD (when it was stationed in Northern Britain). It may have been disbanded, or destroyed in battle, but no-one knows for sure.

    Thousand Sons - Ahriman is named after the evil, destructive spirit from the Zoroastrian Religion. His twin brother is named after the good creator god from the same religion. I like to think that the concept of Rubric Marines came from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rRPU_cvGg
    Last edited by mawhis; 05-02-2017 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Formatting and Clarity

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •