I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules!

[Chunk]

Well,

I was reading Tv Tropes the other night and someone commented on how Warhammer players are the most whiniest group of fans of any game system, and I thought to myself "Hardly! I'm sure there was more whining when 4th Ed DnD came out, we're not that bad are we?" but this thread has changed my mind.

Your complaints may be legitimate and your arguments valid, but that doesn't give you the right to annoy people by whining about something you have absolutely no power to change. When I find myself complaining or worrying about something I ask myself: Can I change or affect my predicament in any way? If the answer is yes, then I do whatever it is I can, but if the answer is no I just ignore it; no complaining, no pissing other people off with incessant (and in many cases unreasonable) cries of "Herpaderp the rulebook is overpriced!"

The rulebook is priced the way it is, and no amount of you saying you won't buy it will change that.

That being said, for all of you saying how stupid GW is for pricing the rulebook the way it is, look at what the customer is getting (no, not -you- personally, the -customer-) which is this: A full-colour, fully pictured, fully diagrammed ruleset for the best edition of Fantasy I have ever played, and I started back in 3rd edition. On top of this they get all the background they would ever need for every race, advice on painting, basing and playing with the army of their choice, an easy reference system for mid-game use, a list of fantastic and diverse basic scenarios which help balance army lists (can't play gunline effectively if the terrain is dense or you've rolled the scenario in which you can't set up everything the way you want it) as well as a set of truly heroic legendary scenarios which has inspired me to create a Dwarven blimp from a coke bottle and string.

Some of you don't want most of that, and for you they've developed a handy little rulebook with only the rules in it (as a quick aside: don't you think GW -knows- about the re-selling of smaller rulebooks? Honestly!) which you can pick up with a massive amount of High Elves and Skaven (a fantastic way of getting your children into the hobby, for all you family men who say you can't convince the wife) or easily from eBay once it's released.

But don't have the audacity to say that the BRB is bad value, because with all that in it I think the price is -very- fair, especially considering the high production level.

I had to create a profile in order to write this, which should say a lot about how angry this thread made me.

Finally, I think the OP's scenario should've run like this:
Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But itls double the size of the last book and it;s all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Why would you want just the rules? If you wanted that get the starter set which is out in September. But still, just the rules is a bit boring!
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Junk? You're seriously going to insult our flagship game system inside one of our stores -to the manager of that store-? Man, no wonder you only want the rules. Is that all for today?
Me: No thats it thanks.
Manager: Good, please don't come back. You aren't worth the (relatively few I'm sure) sales you would generate from keeping you as a customer, buy from our website or from another store, I don't want to see you again.

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.

[Kelbor hal]

^ Cool story Bro.

~ Hal.

[Aldramelech]

Well,

I was reading Tv Tropes the other night and someone commented on how Warhammer players are the most whiniest group of fans of any game system, and I thought to myself "Hardly! I'm sure there was more whining when 4th Ed DnD came out, we're not that bad are we?" but this thread has changed my mind.

Your complaints may be legitimate and your arguments valid, but that doesn't give you the right to annoy people by whining about something you have absolutely no power to change. When I find myself complaining or worrying about something I ask myself: Can I change or affect my predicament in any way? If the answer is yes, then I do whatever it is I can, but if the answer is no I just ignore it; no complaining, no pissing other people off with incessant (and in many cases unreasonable) cries of "Herpaderp the rulebook is overpriced!"

The rulebook is priced the way it is, and no amount of you saying you won't buy it will change that.

That being said, for all of you saying how stupid GW is for pricing the rulebook the way it is, look at what the customer is getting (no, not -you- personally, the -customer-) which is this: A full-colour, fully pictured, fully diagrammed ruleset for the best edition of Fantasy I have ever played, and I started back in 3rd edition. On top of this they get all the background they would ever need for every race, advice on painting, basing and playing with the army of their choice, an easy reference system for mid-game use, a list of fantastic and diverse basic scenarios which help balance army lists (can't play gunline effectively if the terrain is dense or you've rolled the scenario in which you can't set up everything the way you want it) as well as a set of truly heroic legendary scenarios which has inspired me to create a Dwarven blimp from a coke bottle and string.

Some of you don't want most of that, and for you they've developed a handy little rulebook with only the rules in it (as a quick aside: don't you think GW -knows- about the re-selling of smaller rulebooks? Honestly!) which you can pick up with a massive amount of High Elves and Skaven (a fantastic way of getting your children into the hobby, for all you family men who say you can't convince the wife) or easily from eBay once it's released.

But don't have the audacity to say that the BRB is bad value, because with all that in it I think the price is -very- fair, especially considering the high production level.

I had to create a profile in order to write this, which should say a lot about how angry this thread made me.

Finally, I think the OP's scenario should've run like this:
Manager: Looking forward to 8th?
Me: Nope, not buying it
Manager: Why not? (shocked)
Me: I ain't paying £50 for a set of rules, you lot are having a laugh
Manager: But itls double the size of the last book and it;s all color
Me: And how much of that is actual rules?
Manager: Why would you want just the rules? If you wanted that get the starter set which is out in September. But still, just the rules is a bit boring!
Me: I don't need a section telling me about painting, races, making terrain, history, or any of the junk you've padded it out with to make it double the size, and since when were books priced in the real world as to how thick they are?
Manager: Junk? You're seriously going to insult our flagship game system inside one of our stores -to the manager of that store-? Man, no wonder you only want the rules. Is that all for today?
Me: No thats it thanks.
Manager: Good, please don't come back. You aren't worth the (relatively few I'm sure) sales you would generate from keeping you as a customer, buy from our website or from another store, I don't want to see you again.

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.

The thread title is fairly obvious and if you dont like this sort of thing then why did you read it?
I know the Manager of the shop very well, he's been there for years and Ive been his customer for many years. No offense was given or taken.

So this is your first post here? Hardly an auspicious start is it? How about you go away and dont come back

This is an internet discussion forum, this is what people do, we post opinions and idea's to provoke discussion. Sometimes positive themes, sometimes negative. If you feel like enjoying a lively discussion then this is the place, if your just interested in shouting abuse at people then just go away......

[Nikephoros]

I still contend you're a total weirdo for thinking that the rulebook is a poor value but the insanely overpriced spray primer is an acceptable purchase.

[Chunk]

This is an internet discussion forum, this is what people do, we post opinions and idea's to provoke discussion. Sometimes positive themes, sometimes negative. If you feel like enjoying a lively discussion then this is the place, if your just interested in shouting abuse at people then just go away......

I hate it when someone I'm arguing with rebuts with a good point! Ruins my entire strategy

I was wrong to abuse you out of hand, especially since you're a person who shares my hobby, but sometimes we all get a little...heated when people start abusing something that doesn't really (in my eyes) deserve the treatment.

I still disagree however that the rulebook is bad value for the average player, that is, the player that will want both the rules and the accompanying material that comes with it. The fact that you're comfortable with paying $21 for a can of spray paint once a month but not $90 for a book that you'll use for a good 5 years (longer if you're like me and enjoy looking back through the previous editions for scenario details and other tidbits) only serves to reinforce my point,

but I shouldn't have just abused you, and for that I heartily apologise.

[Old_Paladin]

I keep seeing this "value/worth" arguement over and over again; and I think it needs to be cleared up.

People like Alda and myself have never said that the actual book and it's 500+ pages isn't, in and of itself, worth $90; it's a huge book and in full colour of course it's going to cost that much and is priced accordignly.

Our problem with the cost is because the book doesn't need to be that big in the first place; it costs too much for us because it has been needlessly bloated to cost more money.
It's supposed to be a rulebook, but only 175 pages are rules. $90 for 175 pages isn't very good value. There's like 300 pages of filler, basically 2/3rds of the whole thing; and we don't want/need a hobby book (that's why painting guides, and art and fluff books are sold seperately; and are better done serperately).
If there was a hard-bound "gamer" version that was only 200 pages and cost ~$50-$60 we'd buy that, but that's not an option. Or wait an extra month and pay $110+ for a mini-book (thank goodness for ebay).


So please, if you're going to argue or debate the issue, don't use a strawman or misrepresent our point.

[Aldramelech]

I still contend you're a total weirdo for thinking that the rulebook is a poor value but the insanely overpriced spray primer is an acceptable purchase.

We dont pay anything like what you pay for spray in America my friend, not even close. Also I can get alot out of a can of Chaos black, it lasts me several months.

I hate it when someone I'm arguing with rebuts with a good point! Ruins my entire strategy

I was wrong to abuse you out of hand, especially since you're a person who shares my hobby, but sometimes we all get a little...heated when people start abusing something that doesn't really (in my eyes) deserve the treatment.

I still disagree however that the rulebook is bad value for the average player, that is, the player that will want both the rules and the accompanying material that comes with it. The fact that you're comfortable with paying $21 for a can of spray paint once a month but not $90 for a book that you'll use for a good 5 years (longer if you're like me and enjoy looking back through the previous editions for scenario details and other tidbits) only serves to reinforce my point,

but I shouldn't have just abused you, and for that I heartily apologise.

Accepted. As graceful an apology Ive ever seen on the net. Welcome by the way.

I keep seeing this "value/worth" arguement over and over again; and I think it needs to be cleared up.

People like Alda and myself have never said that the actual book and it's 500+ pages isn't, in and of itself, worth $90; it's a huge book and in full colour of course it's going to cost that much and is priced accordignly.

Our problem with the cost is because the book doesn't need to be that big in the first place; it costs too much for us because it has been needlessly bloated to cost more money.
It's supposed to be a rulebook, but only 175 pages are rules. $90 for 175 pages isn't very good value. There's like 300 pages of filler, basically 2/3rds of the whole thing; and we don't want/need a hobby book (that's why painting guides, and art and fluff books are sold seperately; and are better done serperately).
If there was a hard-bound "gamer" version that was only 200 pages and cost ~$50-$60 we'd buy that, but that's not an option. Or wait an extra month and pay $110+ for a mini-book (thank goodness for ebay).


So please, if you're going to argue or debate the issue, don't use a strawman or misrepresent our point.

Agreed. Well put.

[Grabnutz]

Seriously, I'm surprised he didn't do this. If you came to my store and pulled that crap on me, you'd be banned I can tell you now. In future, just keep your inane whining to yourself.

An interesting and very detailed take from a man who's been playing since 3rd edition. So tell me dear Veteran Chunk, given that you've almost certainly:
1. bought each set of rules since 3rd,
2. bought every codex for every army you own, and read most of the others,
3. read every copy of White Dwarf with all its tactical and hobby articles, and
4. probably read quite a few of the novels and other fluff products that support Warhammer,
exactly how much of the 500+ pages is going to be of any actual value to you whatsoever?

I agree that for a complete newbie such a tome could be a true revelation, but to anyone else they are selling you what they've already sold you before, perhaps many times.

It may come in a full colour and graphically pleasing package but a large proportion of it is a case of creative recycling.

This is why us other veterans are questioning the ethical marketing strategy of GW with this edition. Would you buy the latest DVD in a film series you liked if you could only buy it with every previous edition bundled with it at five times it's actual value?

Yes there are 175 pages of rules, no doubt padded out with the quotes, stories and graphics GW loves to pepper its work with. If you boiled it down to useful text we are talking 100 pages max, of which less than half are truly new, if we are lucky. So for 50 pages of new rules you are prepared to pay as much as a Battalion box.

Inane yes, but I don't think you can really categorize it as whining.

[Melissia]

The Big Rule book is designed for a small subset of people - early adopters, fluff junkies, people who game every week and new players.

If you are not one of those types of people, you can wait 2 months and buy the mini rule book for cheap on eBay.

Personally I think that's most players that care about the rules anyway right there. Painters don't care about the rules to begin with, because they just want new models to paint (half the dedicated no-gaming painters I know don't even have legal armies for example).

[Aldramelech]

Personally I think that's most players that care about the rules anyway right there. Painters don't care about the rules to begin with.

Ohhhh no you don't! The War Of the Brush is elsewhere.........

Go Back to the 40K forum, The Power of Aldramelech compels you!!!!!!!!!!!