24000 pts apocalypse - tips?

[wbravenboer]

Wow! Hope you come home safely! If you see any of our Dutch soldiers, say Hi!
No chance to play warhammer there I think

Funny to hear from some Eldar players, as I have yet to play against Eldar, any special units to be afraid of?

[Xas]

the eldar cobra EITHER has a 4+ invul OR the ability to negate hits on a 4+.
the old variants of titan holofields negate hits on a 4+.
the new variant of titan holofields (imperial armor apocalypse 2, newest FW apoc book) grant a 4+ invul save.


as they appear in different books no entity can have BOTH at the same time.

an eldar flier has two 4+ "saves" because it both has the normal cover save for fast moving skimmers and the holofields. an eldar superheavy with the old holofields can as well have a doubled 4+ save but not shoot the same turn (because it has to move flat out to get the cover save) or your oponent somehow managed to obscur it to get a normal cover save.

none of the above can buy spirit stones.


only the new cobra mk2 can have spirit stones but then the holofields are only a 4+ invul save and therefore NEVER stack with any sort of cover.

[DrLove42]

When i spoke with the forgeworld guy at the FW open day he said you only ever get 1 save 4+ save on eldar vehicles (not including the 4+ for primary weapon). Eldar fliers don't get the holofield save AND then the 4+ save all fliers get. They only get 1, but all other fliers lose theirs against the hydra and other AA weapons that ignore cover saves.

He said that all Eldar fliers need reducing in cost massivly now, but that's not till IA10.

As for multiple saves on a single vehicle we just generally accept that all vehicles only get 1 save. Holofield/flat out but only get one save. Gets more complex when the new phantom titan's released a that has different saves depending on what speed it moves!

[DarkAngelHopeful]

All of this is great to know for future Apoc games. Now it won't be as hard for me to kill a Cobra lol. Thanks for the info!

[DrLove42]

No probs. good luck on the rest of your deployment!

As this seems to be a eldar/apoc thread rule discussion now i've got a question....Wave Serpent shields reduce the strength of all shots in the front/side arc to S:8 right? And no double dice for melta or ordanance. But how does this intereact with Strength D? I've seen 2 groups;

1) its a STRENGTH D hit so it also downgrades to a S8 hit. Although this makes wave serpents harder than titans this is my view on it

2) It causes an auto penetrate, so the shield has no effect.

Thoughts?

[DarkLink]

Strength D doesn't have a strength value for a wave serpent energy field to affect. All it does is cause auto-penetration, which the energy field does absolutely nothing to protect against.

Strength D could be Str 10 or Str 8 or Str 3 or Str -, it doesn't matter. In each case, it auto-penetrates.

[Xas]

No probs. good luck on the rest of your deployment!

As this seems to be a eldar/apoc thread rule discussion now i've got a question....Wave Serpent shields reduce the strength of all shots in the front/side arc to S:8 right? And no double dice for melta or ordanance. But how does this intereact with Strength D? I've seen 2 groups;

1) its a STRENGTH D hit so it also downgrades to a S8 hit. Although this makes wave serpents harder than titans this is my view on it

2) It causes an auto penetrate, so the shield has no effect.

Thoughts?

darklink is right on this (2) but to elaborate a bit.

"Destroyer" or "Titan Killer" is a special apoc rule that can be either written as strenght value or the titan killer special rule. nevertheless it is not a pure strenght value that you could look up on your to-wound chart so the fields are useless.

your strenght D weapon might cause a strenght 8 hit on the wave serpent but that still auto penetrates.

[thelonegrif]

if your going into a game that big its been my experience that formations and extra stratagems conferred by those formation will help out a lot and ive seen that if you both take outflank you will be fighting around the table edges the whole freaking game and that got old quick in my circle since your running sm/ig you'll have access to a decent variety of weapons but dont go wasting them purely on titans (or bio titans in your case) sometimes you can spend up 2-4 turns trying to kill something like that just try to tie it up and keep it distracted and off objectives best way to do that is give it something tasty to chew on (that should keep it quite and happy for a bit ) and remember after mass points are gone snipes can bring down a titan

[Daemonette666]

In a few weeks time we will be playing a major apocalypse game, 6 players, 4000 pts each,
tyranids/eldar versus IG/SM
The tyranids will be fielding a Hierophant and a barbed Hierodule,
the imperiums has at least 3 baneblades, a stormlord and a shadowsword.
I will be playing IG, especially the hierophant has me scared, and of course a lot of trygons, mawlocs and
beasties will be coming along...
Are there some people who can give me and my mates some pointers to deal with the bio-titan or some tactical advice?

Lots of Nids, means lots of units moving, so more time being taken up in their turn moving not shooting or fighting (initially).

Your blast/template weaponry will thin these down a great deal. For the big nids, amnd the bio-titan D weaponry is good, as are heavy weapons teams. keep pounding on thw worst of them, and they should fall. Use your SM allies to create units of good close combat troops for the inevitable crunch in close combat.

Do what you are good at. shooting, so lots and lots of tanks. The bane wold is a favourite of mine, as is the hell hound in my traitor guard army.

The Eldar are possibly your biggest threat, with their heavy tanks armed with D-weaponry, titans, and an array of nasty tank killing units (prism cannons, D-cannons, and so on).

Simple tactic, kill the big stuff with your high str and high AP weapons. Kill the massed troops with large blast weaponry, and lots of fire power. Spread the Space Marines amongst your own troops so you have some close combat backup.

Someone mentioned not using a huge gamning table. I agree. Nothing bigger than a table tennis table (5' x 9'). I have also noticed that if you let player bring in reserves up unto turn 5, the game goes on for ever. Limit the turn when all reserves must be on the table by, and if it wasn't for the fact that one or more of your opponents is uning Nids, I would limit the number of models on the table as well.

[Daemonette666]

Lots of Nids, means lots of units moving, so more time being taken up in their turn moving not shooting or fighting (initially).

Your blast/template weaponry will thin these down a great deal. For the big nids, amnd the bio-titan D weaponry is good, as are heavy weapons teams. keep pounding on thw worst of them, and they should fall. Use your SM allies to create units of good close combat troops for the inevitable crunch in close combat.

Do what you are good at. shooting, so lots and lots of tanks. The bane wold is a favourite of mine, as is the hell hound in my traitor guard army.

The Eldar are possibly your biggest threat, with their heavy tanks armed with D-weaponry, titans, and an array of nasty tank killing units (prism cannons, D-cannons, and so on).

Simple tactic, kill the big stuff with your high str and high AP weapons. Kill the massed troops with large blast weaponry, and lots of fire power. Spread the Space Marines amongst your own troops so you have some close combat backup.

Someone mentioned not using a huge gamning table. I agree. Nothing bigger than a table tennis table (5' x 9'). I have also noticed that if you let player bring in reserves up unto turn 5, the game goes on for ever. Limit the turn when all reserves must be on the table by, and if it wasn't for the fact that one or more of your opponents is uning Nids, I would limit the number of models on the table as well.

Sorry typos - Bane Wolf (chem cannons). Happens when you speed type.