New player, I need some start up advice

[Helix-09]

Hi everybody. I haven't played 40k since somewhere around 3rd edition and haven't followed the game in some time, but I'm getting back in after playing some demo games at a local comic store. I'm trying to narrow down where and how to start and doing some research, but I need some advice. I've narrowed down the first army I want down to Genestealer Cults, Mechanicus/Skitarii, or Blood Angels. Beyond that, I need some advice.

1. Gameplay wise, how forgiving are those three armies for a new player? I don't know the difficulty curve, though I assume any kind of marine army including Blood Angels leans towards newbie friendly. Also, just randomly curious, how popular are those three armies?

2. What is a Decurion? I see it mentioned frequently. Is that a general term for the mega-detachments that are made up of other detachments (like the Space Marine Gladius thing)? I've read the Mechanicus/Skitarii doesn't have one, is this likely to change any time soon? Are there plans to merge the two armies since they seem to belong together?

3. For Blood Angels, two things I've always loved about them are Terminators and the Death Company. Just curious how these generally perform in the current edition. I read something about ranged terminators not being that great, but I'm way out of the loop so I have no idea.

4. If I start with Genestealers is the Deathwatch Overkill game the best way to start? I'd seen it recommended and it seems like even if you didn't care about the board game it's still a good deal for the amount of models you get.

Thanks for any help, I'm just trying get up to date on things.

[Ravingbantha]

I can't really help with the Gnestealer Cult or Mechanicus/Skitarii but the Blood Angels are pretty easy to get into, like all Space Marines, they are pretty solid all the way around. You're not going to trouncing people right out the gate, but they are fairly easy to get started with.

As for Decurion detachments, this is a new way GW is going with being able to field your army. You can field your army in a standard detachment format (usually 1 HQ and 2 Troop choices minimum with additional forces types allowed after that) or you can field a Decurion. A Decurion is a series of formations that make up your army. Each formation is listed grouping of troops and/or vehicles that when taken as that formation, give you bonus rules allowing you to do things with that formation that you normally cannot. Like your forces (HQ, Elite, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support) Formations in a Decurion fall into one of 3 catagories, depending on what army you are playing, they will be either Core, Command, or Auxiliary. Different armies allow different ammounts of each, but generally speaking you are looking at 1+ core Choices, 1-10ish Auxiliary choices, and 0-2 Command Choices.

Your Command Choices are usually a formation of HQ units, formed together to get some bonus ability (for example 2-5 Librarians as one formation, and they a better chance to generate warp charges). A Core choice is usually a large formation of several Troop choices, an HQ in there somewhere, and maybe a Fast Attack, Elite, or Heavy support. Depending on the formation, you may get free squad upgrades, free transports, or new abilitites, often these core choices represent what a 'typical' 1000-1200 point force would be for that army. Then you have Auxiliary choices, these contain all sorts of craziness with numerous troops combinations, to vehicle combinations, to troop and vehicle combinations, even some flyer and vehicle or flyer and troop combinations. The idea is, these are specific groupings that are designed to do something specific.

Each detachment has their own rules, but then each Decurion also has bonus rules for fielding it, so your special rules can get special rules and so on. The down side to Blood Angels is that they haven't gotten a lot of love in this department. Their Codex does not have a Decurion, but it does have one formation to field an entire Battle Company, but you're looking at a lot of money and a big game to use that. They do have a Baal Strikeforce Detachment, allowing you to field 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troop, 1-4 Elite, 0-3 Fast Attack, and 0-3 Heavy Support (basiclly an extra Elite slot that becomes manditory) with any real benifets to the detachment.

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus adds a few more Detachment options, allowing you to field the 1st company as your army. There's a Death Company detachment, but that's really it. You don't actually get any real Decurion type stuff unless you also pick up the 'Angel's Blade' book. I haven't gone through it yet, but it may help add to the Blood Angels giving them some kick.

[Mr.Gold]

1. those armies all have (in general) very different playstyles, e.g. Combat Hoards (GSC), Long Range Firepower (AdMech), or elite Assault (BA). You would probably want to look at what type of army you wish to play, although at the moment shooting in king in 7th ed. I do not know much about GSC so can't really help there. AdMech is OK, however many of their rules contradict the main rules book (e.g. various exotic weaponry, turn by turn bonuses - Canticles & Doctrinas, etc.) meaning a lot to get your head around, however you can definately create some strong/tough lists with them - e.g. a Cohort Cybernetica Formation will have very few models (7 models for about 700pts) however it has a majority toughness of 7 and all the models either have 2+ armour save or 3 wounds, and everything can have feel no pain: it is a formation that will not die! Blood Angels are much like any other space marine army. i.e. GW created them as an intro to the game therefore they are generally good at several things but probably not great at any one in particular. if you were thinking of going Marines however i would suggest going for a Codex force: get the Space Marine Codex rater then the Blood Angels one as there are far more options that you can do with it.

2. Ravingbantha really awnsered the Decurion question, so i will just mention that technically you do not need a decurion to field a handful of formations, you can make up a list with several formations from one book and even though it is not a CAD (Combined Armes Detachment: HQ & 2 Troops) it is still a "bound" army (look up unbound lists elsewhere) as long as every model still belongs to one of those formations. organising those formations into a Decurion Style detachment gives all of those formations probably one or two additional special rules. for an example of a type of army made only up of formations look up the Cult Mechanicus: Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation (this was printed in a White Dwarf a while ago and is now floating around on the net). it is currently unknown if there are any plans to merge the two together at the moment, however if there is i will be first in line to buy the new codex!

3. it depends on who and how you and your opponants are going to play, it is currently quite easy to almost delete units off the table if people take the latest flavour of power. and so most people playing this type of game will probably not take the Shooting Terminators, as there is a relativly new type of gun out there: the Grav Gun, this wounds on what ever your armour value is i.e. if you have a 3+ save you are wounded on a 3+, 6+ save a 6+ etc. as this gun ignores all armour saves (which terminators tend to rely on for their survivability, and therefore what you pay the points for) they only have a 5+ invulnerable save against it. however melee terminators can take storm shields which give a 3+ invulnerable save and are therefore much more surviveable in the current top end game.

4. most likely, however you will not get many of the special weapons in that box as they were released after the game.


[url]https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Cult_Mechanicus(7E)[/url]
[url]https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Skitarii_(7E)[/url]

[url]https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Genestealer_Cults_(7E)[/url]

[url]https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Blood_Angels(7E)[/url]

[Melon-neko]

People call the mega-formations Decurion because the Necron Decurion was the fist of it's type to come out

Anyway, I don't play marines but I can answer some questions about GSC and Skitarii.

Both armies are much hard to play than marines, since they are t3 across the board with worse armor.
The GSC is just about as glass cannon as the game gets. With a good cult ambush you can be charging into h2h first turn with multiple units. The majority of the army has 2 base attacks, s4 and rending, which means they can, theoretically, take out most enemy units in h2h. However, if you have poor cult ambush rolls you can get table pretty easily. That being said, i only play subterranean uprising, I have never tried to play with a normal deployment but I don't think they would make it across the table and they shooting is not great.
The Overkill box set is a good place to start but also note that the GSC is not a cheap army. Ive bought 2 overkill boxes, 2 initiate boxes and 3 acolyte boxes. I still need to buy another acolyte box and 3 genestealer boxes and a sentinel for my 2k army, and its a bit cheaper since I traded for my chimera and leman russ

Skitarii are similar to GSC except their alpha strike is usually shooting. With the ability to have BS7 on your entire army first turn you can do a lot of damage to the enemy, The entire army gets scout as well which helps. They have some good anti tank and actually have some good h2h also. They also have t3 across the board though which hurts given how prevalent s6 weapons are. I enjoy the skitarii but I play mostly against demonkin and get wrecked.

I agree with above poster about the marines, unless you just love some of the blood angel only options, the basic marine codex is better.

[Helix-09]

Thank you everyone for your input, and for the links. It's given me a lot to think about while I practice my painting skills.

[Denzark]

Hey Helix.

Most of your questions have been answered, but I'll clarify:

1. Nowadays codexes have formations, which are a mix of units, to gain a special rule or two. I think the symbol for this is the one with 3 skulls. A decurion can be described as a formation of formations. If what you are building has more than one formation, its a fair bet it is a decurion. Some tournaments ban these and its probably wise to tell any casual opponents what you are bringing - as decurions (actually some formations as well) can provide significant amounts of stuff without paying the points for it.

2. Deathwatch overkill is awesome in all respects - nice game and awesome miniatures, at quite a kncok down price (comparatively).

Hope this helps.

[KillerMemestar]

Something id avoid until your 4th or 5th army is necrons
While challenging for me
They are pure danger when a good player uses them
I own 4 armies right now
The first two being the starter pack armies
The third being necrons and fourth being tau
Which i just started