The ways Epic Heroes can die

[Durburz]

This is to settle a "discussion" me and a friend had on the topic of Epic Heroes. Exactly what are the ways they can die?


You see in the rules it specifies that their Resilience is only used in Duels. SO! Does that mean they have the Resilience of the company they join and die accordingly? Or can they only be killed in duels and by magic?

[Gotthammer]

Well normally when the last company reaches half strength it disperses (pg 40 - 'hope is lost'), so I would say any Epic Heroes in said company would be lost too, without Resilience coming into it.

For Indomitable units it is a bit trickier, as the Heroe's Resilience will theoretically come into play. Then I'd say you take off all the normal models from the company, and when only the hero is left the company is dead, so the hero is killed with the company.

The rules specifically state that Epic Heroes do not change their Resilience to match the units (pg 68 - 'Infantry or Cavalry').

[Durburz]

Well normally when the last company reaches half strength it disperses (pg 40 - 'hope is lost'), so I would say any Epic Heroes in said company would be lost too, without Resilience coming into it.

For Indomitable units it is a bit trickier, as the Heroe's Resilience will theoretically come into play. Then I'd say you take off all the normal models from the company, and when only the hero is left the company is dead, so the hero is killed with the company.

The rules specifically state that Epic Heroes do not change their Resilience to match the units (pg 68 - 'Infantry or Cavalry').

Okay that makes sense. So that's the only other way that a hero can be killed is through Hope Is Lost?

[Gotthammer]

A far as I can tell, but I'm no expert on the rules so others may have more situations.

[Durburz]

A far as I can tell, but I'm no expert on the rules so others may have more situations.

Ah well thanks for your help. Makes a lot more sense then having Heroes only killable by other Heroes and magic. Even if in a "epic" sense that's the only way they do die in the books and movies.



But then I bring up the question of a Legendary Hero Formation like the Fellowship of the Ring. Can they only start to die through Heroes and Magic? Because Hope Is Lost won't come into account because they are ALL heroes.

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

But then I bring up the question of a Legendary Hero Formation like the Fellowship of the Ring. Can they only start to die through Heroes and Magic? Because Hope Is Lost won't come into account because they are ALL heroes.

A question I personally would also like the answer to.

[icecube]

But then I bring up the question of a Legendary Hero Formation like the Fellowship of the Ring. Can they only start to die through Heroes and Magic? Because Hope Is Lost won't come into account because they are ALL heroes.

In the rules it clearly states that the fellowship may not take part in an heroic duel. The harder case is for example " The Nine abroad" legendary formation, that hasn´t got it speficially noted that it cant take part in heroic duels.

The fellowship of the ring is trated exactly like an normal company of warriors in a fight. That means that once you cause number of hits equal to their reciliance(3) one member of the formation is removed. It also means that if you cause, for example 8 hits, two of them would be remowed and the two remaining hits would be wasted. Another thing is the fact that the hobbits are treated as a single model for causulaty removal, but thats an separate rule.

That clear enough?(i hope not too many spelling mistakes)

[Durburz]

In the rules it clearly states that the fellowship may not take part in an heroic duel. The harder case is for example " The Nine abroad" legendary formation, that hasn´t got it speficially noted that it cant take part in heroic duels.

The fellowship of the ring is trated exactly like an normal company of warriors in a fight. That means that once you cause number of hits equal to their reciliance(3) one member of the formation is removed. It also means that if you cause, for example 8 hits, two of them would be remowed and the two remaining hits would be wasted. Another thing is the fact that the hobbits are treated as a single model for causulaty removal, but thats an separate rule.

That clear enough?(i hope not too many spelling mistakes)

But in the rulebook it clearly states that their resilience is only used in duels. By the way it doesn't say they cant take part in Epic Duels so they can still die by Heroes. So no its still not clear enough as the rulebook contradicts what your saying.

[Gotthammer]

But The Fellowship is a formation by itself. It contains characters who can be fielded as epic heroes induvidually, but in the the formation they aren't (see unit type in the statbar) - thus not being able to fight duels and taking casualties like any other formation. It's just that when one of the formation's people die you loose a rule.

Seems the same for the Nine, only the Witch King has Hero under his type seperatte from the other Ringwraiths, so can fight in duels like any other hero, why it is not prohibited. He is not 'epic', so cannot escape the formation however. The other 8 wraiths are not heroes, but use the rules available to the individual hero type.

The key is in the listing for Type - heroes can only duel other heroes, and the 8 wraiths aren't, only the witchking is. Similarly none of the Fellowship are heroes, they are 'infantry'.

[Durburz]

But The Fellowship is a formation by itself. It contains characters who can be fielded as epic heroes induvidually, but in the the formation they aren't (see unit type in the statbar) - thus not being able to fight duels and taking casualties like any other formation. It's just that when one of the formation's people die you loose a rule.

Seems the same for the Nine, only the Witch King has Hero under his type seperatte from the other Ringwraiths, so can fight in duels like any other hero, why it is not prohibited. He is not 'epic', so cannot escape the formation however. The other 8 wraiths are not heroes, but use the rules available to the individual hero type.

The key is in the listing for Type - heroes can only duel other heroes, and the 8 wraiths aren't, only the witchking is. Similarly none of the Fellowship are heroes, they are 'infantry'.

Ah, ok that makes sense now. thanks for clearing that up.