A not-so-great beginning to 40k

[Nabterayl]

Actually it does. Page 3, paragraph 4.

Uh, I don't mean to sound dense, but can you quote that? My page 3 paragraph 4 talks about units. I agree with you, I just don't want to sound stupid if I bring this up again

[Cossack]

He and another guy he apparently knew chastised me heavily for being unpainted. I mean I couldn't believe what was going on. I had no idea that it was a requirement, only an extension of the game (and admittedly painting is the primary reason I wanted to play). These two older gits were as obnoxious as I've ever met. I was told that if I intend to play this game I had better come with a painted army and that he was insulted that I came down without one. I literally couldn't believe my ears. I explained I had a lack of time and was doing what I could when i could and was told quite literally:

"You're in the wrong game then."

Needless to say I left and have never gone back.

Yes, this is a hobby intended to be played with PAINTED miniatures. It's always been that way.

For some strange reason when the competitive types get involved, they care more about winning - as if that matters.

If you look at the history of the hobby, it was grown men with toy soldiers who thought "Why not fight battles with them?" so they made rules. H.G.Wells was the pioneer of this and wrote the first ruleset - Little Wars.

What happened to you was terribly unfortunate. First, you weren't told by your friends to paint your stuff. They should have looked out for you. Second was the attitude of your opponent. I'm sure he was insulted by what he saw...you aren't the only person with a busy schedule. I'm sure he has a job, maybe school too or a wife and kids. Yet he some how found time to paint.

Normally this situation occurs with somebody who's been in the hobby a long time and just hasn't painted their army. There is no excuse for it. They give all sorts of reasons, but if they've been playing for years then what's their problem? In your case, as a first time player, it would be better to offer you a loaner army. That is how I got into wargaming - a friend loaned me his army until I could complete mine.

That's not a hard concept.

And when you complete the first 500 points or so...start playing with it. Not every game has to be 2500 points.

Anyway, everyone should remember that in a social hobby like this there are certain expectations. One that I have is that my opponent - even if I've never met him - respects me enough to actually apply paint to his figures like I did to mine. For some reason that concept is terribly insulting to the 'unpainted is okay' crowd...they feel it's insulting and poor behavior on my part, yet don't understand how I can feel the exact same way about them!

What is the minimum standard? Do the models need to be glued together? I've seen players furiously gluing figures before a game. Why? If they don't have to be painted, why do they have to be glued together? (especially when they are PROXIES....). What about just putting GW bases down with numbers written on them? And if that's okay, why not just use pennies?

This game is about painted figures. If a person really and truly doesn't want to paint, there are plenty of other social games out there that don't require painting! Card games and such, for example. I suggest trying them....no offense intended.

Another angle is the concept that banning unpainted figures from the hobby shop would somehow reduce the number of players. I've been in this hobby since the 70's and been involved at many levels....I'll testify that the BEST way to recruit new players is for them to see games with painted figures. It is the painted figures that attract new blood to the hobby...not the rules. 40K is a terrible set of competitive rules anyway. They are only good for casual games.

Well that's my speach. I'm sure to get hate mail...but it won't be the first. The bottom line is this: The hobby has always been intended to be with painted figures. Nobody gets to change that just because they don't have time to paint. If this is you, please raise your own personal standard and just paint your stuff. And if you only game with figures you paint and only buy one unit at a time and paint it...then you're find the GW prices don't hurt as much.

[Leez]

My army is painted citadel sprue grey in accordance with the lore. The grim dark future is both grim and dark.

[Nabterayl]

Anyway, everyone should remember that in a social hobby like this there are certain expectations. One that I have is that my opponent - even if I've never met him - respects me enough to actually apply paint to his figures like I did to mine. For some reason that concept is terribly insulting to the 'unpainted is okay' crowd...they feel it's insulting and poor behavior on my part, yet don't understand how I can feel the exact same way about them!

The bottom line is this: The hobby has always been intended to be with painted figures. Nobody gets to change that just because they don't have time to paint. If this is you, please raise your own personal standard and just paint your stuff. And if you only game with figures you paint and only buy one unit at a time and paint it...then you're find the GW prices don't hurt as much.

There are certain expectations, and I agree with you that the core of the problem here is that the other fellow was insulted rather than acting with grace. He didn't have to take it as a personal insult that a first-time player didn't show up with a painted force. He just had to say, "I'm sorry, I find that the game isn't fun for me if both sides are not painted, so I'd rather not play you."

As you say, it's a social hobby ... and like any social activity, courtesy is the lubrication that makes it work. That's doubly true with strangers, for all the normal reasons - namely, that strangers don't necessarily have the same expectations. In my gaming group it simply isn't an expectation that the game is played with painted figures. If somebody like you showed up and found over a dozen people playing with not-fully-painted armies, surely you'd simply decline to play us and leave, rather than lecturing us about how we aren't really playing 40K, or aren't "true hobbyists," or had offered you personal insult by not having the same expectations as you And hopefully we'd all have the grace not to be offended by the fact that you didn't want to play us - I certainly wouldn't want somebody to play me who wasn't having fun, and if you tell me you don't have fun because my army isn't fully painted, who am I to argue? But all that can be settled like gentlemen. No insults needed.

[Melissia]

I'm not as nice as Nabterayl, nor as well spoken. So Here's my response:

Anyway, everyone should remember that in a social hobby like this there are certain expectations.

And one of them is that you don't be an arrogant ***hole.

[Squirrel_Fish]

My condolences to you being on the receiving end of some bad attitudes.

That aside, I agree with quite a few of the previous posters. You are by no means obligated to dump the same amount of hours that you spend working into painting, nor are you expected to have it all done by the next time you show up to the club. Out of like 2800 points worth of Space Marines that I've been building over a year now, I have maybe 400 points worth fully painted. Is it because I don't care about the hobby? No. It's because I want this to stay my hobby and not become my job (ironic, considering I just took up a painting commission for a friend....). I'm taking 19 credits a semester and work two part time jobs during the fall up to the spring. Am I bending over backwards during the summer to get this done? No. I'm enjoying what free time I have actually playing the game rather than worrying about drybrushing or proper highlighting.

Take your time. Try and enjoy it.

[Just_Me]

First of all let me say that I'm really sorry that you had such a poor "first" experience, frankly if these players really were as "experienced" as you say, I'm a bit appalled that they would treat a new play like that.

Personally, as I have said on several occasions when the topic has been discussed, I fall into the "always painted, all the time" school of thought. All of my armies are painted to the best of my abilities (which are frankly nothing to write home about), and nothing hits the tabletop, or even my shelves until it is finished. For me this should be no surprise, as it is the background, collecting, and painting/converting that are my interest to the hobby, rather than competitive gaming, though when I do play I like to another painted army across the table from me, it adds to my enjoyment of the game just as I hope my own efforts add to my opponent's. Having said all this however,

I fully recognize that these opinions are my own, I hold myself to them, and it is my to share them if I so choose, but under no circumstances would I presume to hold others to my own artificial benchmark. This hobby is designed to be fun for all who are involved, and not everyone has fun in the same way, and I think it is very wrong for anyone to impose their own set of values on anyone else's experience of the hobby, they are your plastic soldiers, you paid for them and you may do with them as you please whether I agree with you or not.

On an interesting side note, fully painted (or even, gasp! fully assembled) armies are the exception rather than the rule where I go for my infrequent games, so my armies tend to attract some attention, and people have occasionally openly wondered just about the opposite of what you experienced, asking me how I have the time or drive to paint them, and looking at me askance when I tell them that I make sure everything is fully painted.

In short, I hope you won't let this single experience spoil everything for you, not every place or every gamer is the same, give it another chance, maybe look to your friends who seem to game there regularly to point you in the direction of opponents who will by good sports, and steer you clear of the elitist jackasses like those you met.

[Melissia]

Most of my experience have people expect it to be assembled, but it doesn't have to be painted-- after all, everyone has a different painting schedule. But it has to be assembled to be WYSIWYG. Most people will give you tips on assembly and conversion though, both online and off.

[DarkLink]

Yes, this is a hobby intended to be played with PAINTED miniatures. It's always been that way.

For some strange reason when the competitive types get involved, they care more about winning - as if that matters.

And when you start thinking your opinion of how the game should be played matters more than anything else, including how much fun you and your opponent are having, you start wandering into dangerous territory.

I'm sure your a fantastic person in real life, but understand that you do not have any right to dictate why I play 40k, nor do you have any right to declare that I'm "not doing it right".

So Here's my response:And one of them is that you don't be an arrogant...

QFT

[razcalking]

With all that being said, his opponent has every right to refuse a game if he doesn't want to spend his time playing against an unpainted army.

He just shouldn't be a jerk while doing so.