How to beat MoK Marauder Horde in 8th

[BrPrometheus]

I think the biggest thing you need to consider is that while you may have 3 full attacking ranks 10 wide against smaler units you will not get to attack with all of the models in those first three rows. I haven't run al of the numbers but I think a smaller frontage but with deep wounds may be able to do well.

The second thing that comes to mind is the fact that at 5 points a model you have no armor and t3 and so you will loose some to shooting on the way in much more likely than other troop types.

I would look at the massed bretonian peaant archers. I do not have the bretonian book in front of me but I believ they are 4 points a peice and so I can get 75 archers for 300 points.

Lets figure in 3 rounds of shooting and then a stand and shoot reaction.

Round 1: Long Range 75 shots 25 hits 12 dead
Round 2: Long Range 75 shots 25 hits 12 dead
Round 3: 1/2 Long Range 1/2 short range 30 shots short 15 hits 8 dead, 35 shots long 12 hits 6 dead
Round 4: Stand and shoot for 30 archers: 10 hit 5 dead

1st round of combat: 18 attacks, 9 hits, 5 dead.

Total killed before merauders strike back: 47.


Game over. Archers win handily as I was playing them as two blocks of 30 and a block of 15.
The only real question is did I have my points cost on the archers correct at 4.

[BrPrometheus]

Just about any good archery unit can do it in 4 turns.

30 high elf archers 330 points

Round 1: Long Range 30 shots, 15 hits, 7 dead
Round 2: Long Range 30 shots, 15 hits, 8 dead
Round 3: Short Range 30 shots, 20 hits, 10 dead
Round 4: Stand and shoot 30 shots, 15 hits, 7 dead

ASF 24 attacks, 18 hits 9 dead.

Merauders remaining to hit back: 9

18 atacks, 9 hits, 8 dead

Merauders: combat res: 9+1 charge+1 banner
High elves combat res: 9+1outnumber +1 rank

Merauders win by 1 for musician highelves test on stubborn for outnumber.

Next round of combat only 9 merauders left so 11 in the front rank and 6 in the back rank can attack:
17 attacks, 13 hits, 6 dead

6 attacks back, 3 hits, 3 dead.

Merauders now loose combat by 3, loose frenzy I believe and will be vaped in the next turn. And basically to accomplish this you just need to set up at 30" instead of 24" if you are going to go first and slightly behind that if you are going to go second.

[Lord Azaghul]

slight correction to your shooting.

Only the first 2 ranks fire, if you have more ranks and you 'volley fire' only half of the following ranks (rounding up) would fire.
So 50 bowmen, 10 wide would have 35 shots.
But your points is made, bigger units aren't always better.

[Nikephoros]

2 hydra? 350 points.

[Lord Azaghul]

Thanks to the new supporting attack rules AND the new Regen Rules, the hydra(s) won’t be too to kill.
Doesn’t mean that they won’t kill a ton a fast cav though!

[quinn]

I love the fact that you guys are assuming you're going to get 3 rounds of clear, unobstructed shooting. How do you figure that? More terrain, being able to march with a Leadership 9 re-rollable test (assuming the WoC General isn't an idiot and keeps his General and BSB close enough) and an average charge of 11" equals 2 rounds plus a stand -and-shoot at the most! You'll still do damage, but I know that I'll be fielding more than one of these units and quite probably three of them.

We have crunched the numbers and right now the most cost effective unit that stands a chance is Night Goblins with Nets. A bit surprising to me, but they have the best chance at a comparable cost.

One more thing, I would definitely expect to see these Khorne Hordes bolstered by Warshrines. The WoC rare choices aren't really that good in my opinion and other than Hellcannons, I'd expect to see 2 or 3 Warshrines pumping up these guys.

[Winter12]

I quite like the 6 Treekin option. They kill about 10 the first round of combat, then 8.75 the next two rounds. That's 27 dead Marauders over three rounds of combat and they'll have lost two models by this point (with another on 1-2 wounds). That's three break tests for the Marauders (probably will pass assuming General & BSB nearby). Another 13.75 kills over the next two rounds and losing the 3rd Treekin model but who cares because by that point ther's only 9 Marauders left and I imagine they'lll be running next turn. It's also worth noting that I assumed the Marauders passed their fear test every round after the first, because if they fail, they last far less time.

Yes, the Treekin cost a few more points (Just shy of 400), but I as we were assuming that the Marauders had both Leadership & BSB support the entire time that seemed reasonable. Plus, I still have a useful unit left. Takes a few turns but they got there in the end.

6 rounds of combat is a long time for a combat to be going on with no support from either side but the Wood Elf player is going to find it a lot easier to throw units in due to the size of the Marauder unit (especially on 25mm bases). Whereas the Chaos player has to find the Treekin unit sitting happily in the middle fighting only 6 Marauders wide (the Treekin unit is only 120mm wide).

I haven't crunched the number but I'm sure Ogres would give a good account of themselves too.

[Tacoo]

Would using Doom and darrkness (-3 ld), following by flank charging with a unit of horsemen with terror from dreadnight spell work?

What about Melkoths Miasma, reduce Inative, then throw a amped up pit of shades?.

Plus there is always get lucky with infernal gateway, curse of the leper, Treson of tzeentch, pandemonium, take your pick of lores, eather you can kill enough so it dont matter, or assault it with a unit buffed to hell in back.

as for melee, im still reletavily new, but would a single tricked out lord/hero work, on a small base he will take very few return attacks, and with a decent word might only take a wound. could tie up the unit for a long turn, and possibly beat it in combat alot since there barly getting any attacks back.

[addamsfamily36]

You know, i'm still voting on high elf mage with flames of the phoenix on this one.

taking the seer staff means can choose the spell.

so a level two at around 165-185 points could do it.

[slxiii]

how about nearly any unit that charges it in the rear? a pair of stone throwers? archers, as others have said.
As far as the LOS with the archers goes, the archers will be volley firing anyways, so it doesnt make too much difference.
Also, assuming you'll have cover also assumes you'll be moving through/around terrain, further slowing you down or causing additional casualties.

Don't think of this unit as a "nothing can beat this with a front charge" unit, because that is a flaw in tactics on your part. Think of it as a reasonably strong unit that can be defeated with the most simple tactics/support. Units do not exist in a void where they attack only one other unit at a time.