Where do we Draw the Line?

[Mr.MoreTanks]

The other day my friend and i played a game of 40k. he passed me his army list and i looked it over to see what variation of Chaos SM i would face off against today.

i looked down and saw plague marines and noise marines all over his troop choices. oh i thought to myself, i wonder when he picked those up?

he started taking out his models, first was a squad of khorne bezerkers, the second was another squad of bezerkers, and so on. i asked him if he had gotten those plague and noise marines that were all but over flowing in his list.

"No, why would i? I'm not gonna go spend a ton of money just to get some different guys."

the game came and went and i tabled him with my guard, but afterwards i thought about it more...

i mean sure GW prices are to be honest, more than a little high, and it was just a pick up game but calling a bezerker a plague marine just really didn't sit right with me. sure a flamer as a melta here and there i get or even a special character or something.

but your entire army, when you have the models for another and you are just too cheap to but the new ones for your new army list, and just not caring or noticing?

where do we say ok you can only proxy to this point in a pick up game?

i can understand wanting to try a list once or twice before i go out and buy $100 in new guys but to keep doing it for months and months, even years? come on

so wat do you guys do? where is the line? clearly in tournaments its very black and white, but in everyday games it gets a little grey

[Leez]

In the sand, on a rainy day.

[BuFFo]

Ah.... You see how editions can change things, right?

For years, Berserkers were the bees knees, and even I had a Berserker Army, but then a new codex comes out, and all the models you bought because of their effectiveness are now abosolete.

It is actually a smart tactic for a gaming company to do this, so that players are inclined to purchase new models.

In the end, I just don't even play chaos anymore. The question then becomes, do you want to let your opponent proxy his army to play a game that he'll enjoy, or do you not want to even have an opponent to play with at all?

( good example of this are the ****s who force Nercon players to not use WBB against sweeping advance, thus, resulting in no one even playing Necrons anymore, or even the turds who won't let people use Kroot Mercs, even after they converted their army and dropped 800 bucks on figures for the army )

Sometimes, you just need to smile and let your opponent and enjoy their army. I mean, that is what the game is about, right?

Now, if you are just getting tired of fighting Plague Marines, that is a different story all together. Make sure you aren't mixing these emotions up.

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[Bean]

I think there is pretty much no limit on what's acceptable as a proxy. Obviously, you should always be courteous to your opponent--make sure he or she knows what all of your pieces represent and generally try to use things that are of an appropriate size and shape--but it's just a game. Getting pissy about what pieces your opponent chooses to use is not very courteous.

I've played entire games with nothing but paper cutouts and it just doesn't have to make the game less at all.

[BuFFo]

I've played entire games with nothing but paper cutouts and it just doesn't have to make the game less at all.

Agreed!

I have played plenty of games with pennies, bricks and green army men on the table top

[CitizenZero]

Its really up to you to determine what you want to put up with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to not play against players who use proxies. It's actually rude to not ask your opponent if you can use them before the game even starts...

If somebody wants to proxy a model or two, thats one thing...but other than that, I don't want to play against somebody who proxies their whole army...it's not enjoyable for me.

[Freefall945]

It's this same ol' dividing line in gamer groups again. The people who don't lose any enjoyment playing with and against a bunch of coins and flattened beer cans are part of the "I hate/suck at painting and I am rancid with rage that I can be judged on it in a competition" crowd. People who abhor proxies are part of the aesthetically attached, "I joined this hobby for both halves, so for goodness sake make an effort" crowd. I'm part of the latter. The fewer proxies, the better. Where the line is exactly... that's up to you.

[fuzzbuket]

i suppose its what you want.

if youve spent years nicley modelling and painting an army your opponent shaold at least put in some effort, if EVERYTHING is a proxy counters will be better than models due to if a monolith is proxying a trukk youll still seee it as AV14.... its a psychological thingy

even so what i HATE is unpainted models

id prefer to play painted models in a 553 point game than unpainted in a 2000 point. if it looks better its easier to see dramatcic moments and so forth and have a good time! actualy painted models can be funny too ive modelled up ALL my blood angels in snowy camo, snowy camo claoks in a burnt out urban table :P

[Grabnutz]

It's this same ol' dividing line in gamer groups again. The people who don't lose any enjoyment playing with and against a bunch of coins and flattened beer cans are part of the "I hate/suck at painting and I am rancid with rage that I can be judged on it in a competition" crowd. People who abhor proxies are part of the aesthetically attached, "I joined this hobby for both halves, so for goodness sake make an effort" crowd. I'm part of the latter. The fewer proxies, the better. Where the line is exactly... that's up to you.

And here we go again with the sweeping generalizations, or am I utterly unique in enjoying and painting my figures to a moderate standard and don't mind if people play proxies. Often people will play proxies to try out troop types they don't yet own before selling a kidney for another GW boxed set.

What really get's my goat though is where a player converts and/or paints figures from other manufacturer's ranges and the GW-Strumtruppen pile in calling the army 'illegal' in friendly play. My current CSM army has figures from three different manufacturers in it as well as a Greater Daemon who started out as a small resin statuette of the Buddha. All the figures are identifiable as what they are supposed to be but I'm not GW-legal... boo-bleedin'-hoo :P

[Archon]

My friends and I keep it straight: WYSIWYG rules! If I don´t have any pleagemarines I don´t play them its that simple. No proxys, all models painted.

Okay sometimes we make a little exception. I like to try my traitor-soldiers but the ccs is just primed, i ask if it okay to make a 1K game with them and here we go. The big 30 impmob of my friends army didn´t contian any powerweapon, so okay wo go for it power. Only lillte expections are made and so we have nive and fine games without any bulltoys standing for whatever ist hip today.

If you buy your army strictly for powergaming with and the codex or the gameedi are changing - i don´t care, you don´t have it, simply don´t play it or buy it and paint it. If you like to test it, okay maybe we give it a try, but i if you simply will save your hard earnt money - you´re in the wrong hobbie.