I'm okay with a player using proxies to try out new units and get a feel for them.
If he decides that this is going to be the long-term setup for his army, however, he should at least change his models to WYSIWYG.
I'm okay with a player using proxies to try out new units and get a feel for them.
If he decides that this is going to be the long-term setup for his army, however, he should at least change his models to WYSIWYG.
What really gets up my nose is that other companies are starting to think that this is acceptable behaviour.
Battle Front are now as bad if not worse then GW for this. On their forum you cant even mention that fact that there are other manufactorers of 15mm WW2 without being told off. Thats not naming any companies, thats just saying that there are other companies!
Wargaming has always been a mix and match affair. You like some ones infantry but dont like their vehicles, no problem, get some of each. Its always been that way. Now BF behave like they own the copyright to WW2 gaming.
To a New Yorker like you a hero is some kinda weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!
Well, as CitizenZero says, we don't draw the line at all. What you need to answer for yourself is where you draw the line. Like Bean and BuFFo, I can still enjoy the game if my opponent is proxying models or even his entire army. Yes, I like Games Workshop's figures, and I like clever conversions - heck, I love that stuff. But I still like playing the game without it.
Well, as I said, you need to decide for yourself. But if you're really just curious where other people's lines are, here's the way I look at it: I want my opponent to have fun. Yes, I want to beat him, but not if he didn't have a good time on the way. If forcing him to play with a list he doesn't want to play with just to avoid him proxying will diminish his fun, I don't want to do that (bearing in mind of course that, as I said, it doesn't prevent me from having fun). I even know some people who like to play the game but not so much that they want to buy an army at all, and I would rather play with a willing opponent than tell him, "No, the price of entry to have fun in this game is several hundred dollars."
In ever day life we have lives. Not everyone who buys a GW product is in the hobby for painting, converting and playing rules. Not everyone loves WYSIWYG. Not everyone is a rules lawyer.
Yes maybe your fun is taken away form your "standards" but you should never ever tell anyone how to do their hobby, or put your standards on them.
If this really upsets you, never play him again, and find people who have your standards then.
Don't call someone cheap because they will not spend money on GW. Can you tell us for a fact that this person has money out of his yinyang, has so much free time in his life and loves to paint and convert. Since you are painting a picture of this guy, I want all the facts, so I can call him cheap as well then and agree with you.
You are very one sided. You have to understand not everyone has the same intrest in the hobby. Since everyone loves quoting the BRB, please show me the page number where it says that anyone who wants to be into the hobby has to pain, has to put minis together, has to be WYSIWYG, hell even has to shower?
I think there is more things in life than worring about proxies.
Here it is, don't play with anyone who dosn't have the same standards as you. I don't want to hear that I can't find any gamers so I am stuck with them. Beggers can't be choosers. You have to be respectfull of your fellow gamer. As soon as someone says, well it's been years you been using Khorn as a plauge bearer you have to change it. If you know this person for years, then buy him plauge bearers then, other wise you are just cheep, because this would have enhanced your gaming experiance and you didn't do anything to make it better.
What is the most important rule? That we should do whatever the hell we want, but preferably in the best interests of Games workshop when possible? :P Ill go with that
Some of my favorite games have been with crazy proxy armies when we are just goofing around with an army that we would never build. One of my favorite beer-and-pretzels scenarios involves building a list for your opponent to play - the goal is to build the worst possible legal army, and then try to make lemonade out of the lemons your opponent gives you. Obviously this involves heavy proxying, as no one in their right mind would buy Aun'va, piles of Grotesques, 9 Death Cult Assassins, hordes of Nurglings, etc. It makes for a fun game because it's impossible take the game very seriously when you've been given a close-combat Tau army led by Aun'Va.
For casual play, I'm fine with almost any level of proxying, although it's helpful if it's clear which unit is what. A friend who is just starting the game has taken to putting taped little pieces of paper on marines saying "Meltagun" so that it's clear what is what. He runs more meltaguns in his squads than come in the box. I'm not going to make him buy a whole extra box for one meltagun. I see that particular case as more of GW's problem than a problem with my friend.
For tournaments, WYSIWYG is standard, although I don't mind proxies that follow WYSIWYG (like a servo-skull that counts-as a sanctioned psyker in a psyker battle squad).
Last edited by Lerra; 06-25-2010 at 12:26 PM.
You guys do understand that with counts as being the supported by GW rule one could use stones on bases and the list would still be legal.
How about "You win. Can we play for fun now?"
Just point 'em up the way they look and play them that way.