All-gun builds (Empire / Dwarves)

[Old_Paladin]

They strike first in melee.
14 attacks, 9 wounds on the 3+, 9 kills you get no save.
you hit back.. but you can't hurt their 1+ arrmor save.

I think you've missed a little math at the end of that fight.

The gunners will get 16-18 attacks (depending on how the Knights are placed).
They will hit back on 4's (or 5's if they fail their fear check) and wound on 5's.
Also, a 1 always fails; so knights (and even jugger-riders) can always fail an armour save.

So the handgunners will still cause 2-3 wounds on average, and a knight might fail his save; the gunners have lost the fight but still have an extra rank so remain stubborn and both units are likely locked in combat.

[ZenPaladin]

well if they fail the fear they hit on 6's...
But assuming they pass with an 8 or 9 leadership
And hit 9 times and wound 3 times they should cause 0 wounds

They then take the break test which they will most likely pass. But the same thing happens again in their own turn.. and Again in the knights turn.

You still lose the fight and kill maybe 4 to 5 knights and your unit costs 240 points and takes up a big chunk of real estate.

Stubborn doesnt mean you win.. it means you delay. If youve got another unit that can get around that 10 wide block of gunners and charge in there AND they are armed with decent weapons like say the great swords then you will win.

Again though your spending too many points for too little return in my opinion.

Personaly? I plan on big beafy blocks of halbradiers with 10 man handgunner detachments to stand and fire when the enemy closes and a 10-15 man free company detachment to counter charge when the bad guys crash in.

[Old_Paladin]

well if they fail the fear they hit on 6's...
But assuming they pass with an 8 or 9 leadership
And hit 9 times and wound 3 times they should cause 0 wounds

They then take the break test which they will most likely pass. But the same thing happens again in their own turn.. and Again in the knights turn.

You still lose the fight and kill maybe 4 to 5 knights and your unit costs 240 points and takes up a big chunk of real estate.

Stubborn doesnt mean you win.. it means you delay. If youve got another unit that can get around that 10 wide block of gunners and charge in there AND they are armed with decent weapons like say the great swords then you will win.

Again though your spending too many points for too little return in my opinion.

Personaly? I plan on big beafy blocks of halbradiers with 10 man handgunner detachments to stand and fire when the enemy closes and a 10-15 man free company detachment to counter charge when the bad guys crash in.

Sorry, I heard that the new fear rules reduced you to weapon skill one when you failed the test [haven't seen the new book, it's just what I heard].


Spending 240 points to kill half a unit of chaos knights and bog them down for 4 turns (of moving and fighting) seems a good investment; those knights cost over 400 points.

[ZenPaladin]

Well. You have a pretty good point. Maybe I'm underestimating the hand gunner unit? So next question is would the halberds do the same job for cheaper? Though.. against softer targets the hand gunners are going to get a lot more mileage. And your right about the WS 1 thing as well...

Joo know? i was trying to be all authoritative here.. but i was pretty much dead wrong.

[Old_Paladin]

Well. You have a pretty good point. Maybe I'm underestimating the hand gunner unit? So next question is would the halberds do the same job for cheaper? Though.. against softer targets the hand gunners are going to get a lot more mileage. And your right about the WS 1 thing as well...

Joo know? i was trying to be all authoritative here.. but i was pretty much dead wrong.

It's alright; this is pretty much a totally new game now, everyone's going to make mistakes.

I think units with halberds are going to do pretty well in this edition; backed up by gunners/bowmen/crossbows to do some ranged damage to thin down enemy ranks.

And if those Knights had a mark of Nurgle, it would have gone even better for them (can they reduce enemies to WS 0 ?).

[Gooball]

All warmachines are now better
All ranged are now better
Simply put, Empire and dwarves can out-shoot everyone in the game with ease.

[ZenPaladin]

The steam tank has suffered quite the nerf in my opininon. Longbows range and volley fire plus the penalties for firing through and greater amount of terain make me thing high and wood elves have a decent shot at pin cushioning humans wh don't get out there to fight.

[Melissia]

Here's a ~1000 point list.

Heroes
(General) Captain w/Sword of Power, Pistol, Full Plate, Shield, Warhorse, Barding
Lvl 2 Battle Wizard w/Dispel Scroll, Wizard's Staff

Core
State Handgunners
-- 19 Handgunners
-- Full Command
-- Marksman w/Brace of Pistols
State Handgunners
-- 19 Handgunners
-- Full Command
-- Marksman w/Brace of Pistols
State Handgunners
-- 19 Handgunners
-- Full Command
-- Marksman w/Brace of Pistols

Special
Cannon
Cannon
Pistoliers:
-- 6 Pistoliers
-- Musician
-- Outrider



XXXXXXXXXX CC XXXXXXXXXX CC XXXXXXXXXX PPPP
XXXXXXXXXX CC XXXXXXXXXX CC XXXXXXXXXX PGPP

X = Handgunners
C = Cannon and crew
P = Pistoliers
G = General

Not sure where I'd put the Wizard though. Perhaps in the middle group?

[Aenir]

I would drop the barding from the captain, as he becomes slower than the pistoleer unit he is joined to. I also wouldnt put the Wizard IN the middle group, but I would keep it near them

[Melissia]

Ah, so the barding slows them down. Hrm. What to do with the remaining nine points then... as that is what I have after all those purchases....