I'd Like to See Some Tourneys Where Only Painted Armies Are Allowed

[Chris Copeland]

Did I ever say it did? No? Well there's your answer isn't it? That much should have been rather plainly obvious.

What you said was this:

I wouldn't go there even with my painted army if it meant I could avoid elitist painter douchebags who mock the fact that not everyone is good at painting.

The clear implication behind such harsh language seems to be that people who would attend are elitist painter douche-bags that need to be avoided.

By extension, it seems that you harshly judge those of us who (however gently) like to play with painted models. You take a rather elite view of the hobby, looking down upon those who's like to spend the afternoon rolling the bones only with other folks who also brought painted armies.

So I come for clarification: does wanting to attend a tourney that requires you to bring a painted army make one an elitist painter douche-bag?

I, for one, say no. I don't think it does. I'm just a guy pining for one tourney that would be more geared toward me than the pure tactics-lovers. Being a painting-lover does not make me an elitist douche-bag... and before you start parsing semantics again (saying that you never specifically called me that) just look at your own words above where you clearly imply that it does. Cheers...

[razcalking]

As for your suggestion of a tourney filled by normal people? I haven't been to (Whether I'm just watching a friend or actually participating) one yet that hasn't had at least SOMEONE grating on my nerves in some fashion or other. Quite frequently it's the TO for that matter...

If you've been annoyed by someone at every single tournament that you've been to, perhaps the problem isn't other people. The common denominator in all of those situations was YOU.

[Melissia]

That is an incredibly logically fallacious way to argue, Chris Copeland. What I said was the following, broken down into its logical components (including the context behind the post):

1: X [elitist painter douchebags] show up at tournaments/competitions that emphasize painting.
...and...
2: I do not want to go to a tournament with X category players.

Notice what I did not say? That's right, I didn't say ALL people who show up at said tournaments are X category players. That was YOUR assumption, YOUR supposition, YOUR statement. Do not put YOUR ideas into my posts. I did not say that. YOU did. Notice the annoyed, accusatory tone of this post. I don't like it when people put words that I did not say into my posts. You have done this.


Razcalking: The most common denominator was the presence of people, a group of which I and most other human beings are a member of.

[Chris Copeland]

That is an incredibly logically fallacious way to argue, Chris Copeland. What I said was the following, broken down into its logical components (including the context behind the post):

1: X [elitist painter douchebags] show up at tournaments/competitions that emphasize painting.
...and...
2: I do not want to go to a tournament with X category players.

Notice what I did not say? That's right, I didn't say ALL people who show up at said tournaments are X category players. That was YOUR assumption, YOUR supposition, YOUR statement. Do not put YOUR ideas into my posts. I did not say that. YOU did.

Please. Call me Chris. Or Copeland. "Chris Copeland" together sounds so formal... I never said you said that. I said you implied that. Parse all the words you want, Melissia: you are the one who walked into my gentle thread swinging, implying that folks who'd attend a Fully Painted Tourney are elitist douche-bags.

So you DO agree that a person can want to go to a painted only tourney and still be a nice, reasonable gamer? Cheers...

[Squirrel_Fish]

Personally, I think it would be nice. If someone puts forward the effort to put a three color minimum onto their entire army, I won't chastise it. I don't care if you have the simplest color scheme in the world or if your entire army is a Golden Daemon winning wonder. It's just nice to see that people care enough about the other aspects of Warhammer 40k/Fantasy.

Frankly, I think it just adds to the game. The last game I played at the club was my Eldar vs Space Wolves. Both armies painted and on a fully painted and appropriately terrain'd board. Was it the most challenging game or the most satisfying? No, the guy was fairly new to it. However, I wouldn't describe it as a bad game simply because the elements were all there to appeal to my visual senses. It'd be like watching a hollywood blockbuster filled with tons of special effects, but only seeing the green screen instead of explosions or laser beams.

Mel's opinion that a tournament like this would bring forth a bunch of elitest snobs who are going to criticize a person's army is incorrect. Almost tournament, whether requiring fully painted or not, is going to draw in at least one elitest snob who is going to criticize you. To be honest, I've seen people who bring in bare plastic who have given me crap for actually wanting to put paint onto plastic.

Summed up, my points are this.

1) Asking for fully painted armies are not for snobs, it's a fairly simple request for you to respect the whole tabletop gaming experience.
2) We don't expect it to be absolutely stunning. Painted miniatures add a lot of verisimilitude.
3) Any tournament, any format. There will always be one douche-nozzle (not a mere container, but a dispenser of douche)...

Squirrel Fish

[Melissia]

Neither the logic nor the wording of my post implied it. English is not a perfect language, nor is my ability to deliver it perfect, but in this case you were using a strawman rather than my actual post.

[murrburger]

I'd go to a tourney where only painted armies are involved. My painting isn't awesome, but it's table-quality. Might make me finish my Blood Angels.

I mean, it's not like I'm being forced to go there or anything. Even if I didn't want to go, there's no reason why you can't have this hypothetical tourney.

I just hope gaming and painting scores are separate.

[Chris Copeland]

1) Asking for fully painted armies are not for snobs, it's a fairly simple request for you to respect the whole tabletop gaming experience.
2) We don't expect it to be absolutely stunning. Painted miniatures add a lot of verisimilitude.
3) Any tournament, any format. There will always be one douche-nozzle (not a mere container, but a dispenser of douche)

Douche-nozzle. Hilarious! I've not heard the term. (Coincidentally, I'd not seen an adult use the term douche as an insult in years... it seems so 4th grade)...

I agree with you, Squirrel Fish. Many people on the pro-painting side don't even see this as a debate at all... we belong to the paint if you want, don't paint if you don't want to school of thought... sometimes I'll game with folks who have unpainted minis (I'm looking at you PlasticAddict) and sometimes I'll pass on those to get in games with fully painted armies.

Melissia had a very good point: the quality of the tourney is determined by how nice the folks are.

That being said, this thread was still an out loud wish for something I've never seen in my little part of Texas: a tournament specifically for those gamers who really dig painting...

Chris

[razcalking]

Razcalking: The most common denominator was the presence of people, a group of which I and most other human beings are a member of.

And also a group that you apparently can't communicate with or deal with in a pleasant, non-confrontational manner.

[Chris Copeland]

Neither the logic nor the wording of my post implied it. English is not a perfect language, nor is my ability to deliver it perfect, but in this case you were using a strawman rather than my actual post.

I guess we are down to the part wherein we must agree to disagree. From my perspective that is exactly what your post implies. I was glad to see you acknowledge that not all folks who might want to go to a fully-painted-only-tourney are elitist douche-bag pricks... that seemed reasonable...

Take care. Cheers. Good gaming to all... Chris