Realism in 40K (Author Style Discussion)

[Magos]

Okay, Im not sure how to best apply my thoughts to the thread title. Im not even fully sure how best to phrase all of this.

I've been reading comments about two Warhammer 40K authors, Henry Zhou, and Dan Abnett, and some thoughts began to congeal in my mind while I was in the waiting room at the eye place. Anyway, here is my thought.

Why do people have such a big problem with Henry Zhou and Dan Abnett? (I know this not everyone who does). From what I've seen, people didnt like Henry Zhou becouse in some ways, some of his writing made to much sense. Divisions as a unit instead of Regiments in the Imperial Guard (which makes SO MUCH more sense), Inquisitors actually having to take political considerations into effect instead of just going "welp, inquisition here, everyone dies...)

In a way, I think the same can be said for Dan Abnetts stuff. He doesnt make his writing purely bolter porn. It isent in line with what people feel is the Main Fluff. People actually are human beings instead of everyone being superhuman killing machines or single men with the ability to annhilate planets at a whim.

Eh, Im not even sure how much of this makes sense

[Kahoolin]

I always thought Dan Abnett was the most popular BL author? That's the impression I get from forums anyway, I've only read the Caiaphas Cain novels.

As to your question, if it's true that people don't like these authors because their characters behave like people instead of "bolter porn stars" as you put it, it must be because when people read a 40k book they want bolter porn and not in depth characterization. Wouldn't you be annoyed if you hired what you thought was a light, dodgy action movie and it turned out to be slow and dramatic with complex plot and characters? Sometimes you're just in the mood for silly over the top death and destruction.

[ThePov]

I understand what you mean, and I think what some people don't realise when they pick up a 40K novel is that it's just that: A novel. It's not meant to be an end-all be-all sourcebook. It's meant to be a story that works within the grander framework of the 40K universe, and author's style is going to have a lot to do with that. As much as we all love super-powered killing machines, they actually aren't that relatable, and the point of a good novel is to get you to relate to the characters and their strugle on some level, if only a primal survival-oriented one. In fact, it is an accepted part of the 40K mythos that Space Marines, the flagship characters of 40K, are so far focused on being the perfect defenders of humanity that they may well have sacrificed their own humanity in the process. They are supposed to be above petty human emotions like love, fear, and pain, and thus they make bad characters for a novel. If a writer is going to do a 40K novel or short story, he HAS to take so liberties with the established game background, or it will be doomed to failure.

Now, I can't speak for Henry Zhou, having never read anything of his, but I've never had any problem with the work of Dan Abnett, especially the Gaunt's Ghost novels, which, when taken as a series, do a very commendable job of injecting the human aspect and the realitity of a unit with a high mortality rate and low recruit rate into the hellish battlefields of 40K.

[BlacknightIII]

What people need is an amazing action packed 40k movie, with explosions, and epic scale battles and blood and gore and whatever else makes a good action movie. (Id watch it!)

Us that want interesting characters, moral dilemmas and creative plots we have the books.

Frankly i want a dark eldar novel, im tired of the imperium and space marines.

[ThePov]

What people need is an amazing action packed 40k movie, with explosions, and epic scale battles and blood and gore and whatever else makes a good action movie. (Id watch it!)

Us that want interesting characters, moral dilemmas and creative plots we have the books.

Frankly i want a dark eldar novel, im tired of the imperium and space marines.

Good luck with that. At this point, the best way to get Black Library to notice anyone except the Imperium, and Chaos by way of an antagonist, is to write your own damn novel and send it to them. Statistically, a big enough number of people have at least one Chaos, IG or Space Marine army that the best business plan is to stick with the Horus Heresy and a few "modern era" Imperial Novels.

The idea of a movie isn't bad, but it would take a lot of work, would likely require that the upcoming Gears of War movie do well (Gears has much the samedark and violent atmosphere as 40K), and wouldn't be around the corner for at least 4 or 5 years, and thats IF GW is willing to do a deal with the corporate devil and grant some rights to a major Hollywood film studio, which is dubious in and of itself, as as far as I've noticed, GW likes to either keep things in-house or be the bigger person when it comes to negotiations.

[Jearden]

Im going to agree with ThePov here. A lot of people pick up a 40k novel and expect it to me a written narative account of a table top battle with a little flavor thrown in.

I personally love Abnett, I havent read Zou yet, but Ive been considering picking up Emperors Mercy, and now after reading this, Im going to for sure.

Abnett inserts realism and humanity into his books. The characters have a conscience, and an idea that there is a bigger picture to what is going on outside of the current killing field. The good guys arent pure as the driven snow, they are real, they make mistakes, that might and have killed other characters. Some people want the good guys to wear a white hat, and the bad guys to wear a black hat and there not be any questions about who is who. Thats just not how it works in real life, and Abnett inserts that reality into his novels.

Its for me, and thats why I enjoy his books so much. For some others, not so much. And it is human nature to be outspoken about what you dont like.

[Liquidice]

I always thought that Abnett's novels were the best by far. And if their was going to be a movie, i'd say it would have to be the Eisenhorn trilogy. It has great characters, and I think it is one of the only stand-alone books where you don't even have to now alot about the 40k universe to enjoy it. btw George Clooney would play Eisenhorn...

[Forhekset]

I love Abnett like I love air.

He's one of the authors, maybe even the only one I've read, that actually attempts to ADD to the 40k mythology, if its just by coining terms like vox and pict and stuff like that, or by the slang and characterisation of people living in hive hab stacks. He injects so much flavour and style into it, whereas alot of other authors just take what we all know, and have them go about their business without adding anything real to it, just regurgitating what is already lying around and weaving their stories through it.

To me, that is the fundamental difference as to why Abnett is the best and people like Ben Counter should never be allowed to write novels.

[BlueRonin]

No writes is going to win the praise of every reader, certainly not when he writes in a setting so open to interpretation as Warhammer 40,000.

I just finished the Ultramarines Omnibus, and what's mentioned here strikes a chord, because although I did enjoy the stories - especially "Warriors of Ultramar" and "Black Sun, Dead Sky" - I was really bothered my Graham's portrayal of Space Marines. A Space Marine Captain (no less) with all that emotional turmoil? I mean some of it was just downright immature!

I've worked with a number of Special Forces units and I've met quite a few hardcore soldiers that make all the Space Marine I've ever read about in fiction look like friggin' wusses... considering a lifetime of training - I mean, Psycho-Surgery for crying out loud! - and they run around with more doubt, fear, and petty jealously then most of our own real-world elite?

That's when I remind myself that it's just a story... and usually a good one at that and when I do come across stuff I don't like, I just forget about it - after all, I love 40k base don my own interpretation of 40k, and not everybody is going to agree with it!

[Magos]

This is slightly unrealated to my own thread topic, but its 2 AM and I dont care

Did anyone notice references to the Ultramarines book mentioning Urial Ventris's father being a Spacce Marine as well?
If so
That makes no damn sense