The Question of Counts-As

[40kAlex]

I've got a question, but first there's a little background to be explained:

I started a codex marines army about two years ago by buying the Battle Company box set. This gave me a tremendous starting foundation of rhinos, devs, tacticals, and assault marines. From this platform I built up a sizable (3000+ points) marine army. I was happy with it, my sternguard and Ironclads were running about destroying things, and I even occasionally used my Thunderfire cannon.

Then the Space Wolf codex came out.

Being of Norwegian decent myself and always a fan of vikings, I fell in love with both the fluff and the rules. Although SW lacked some of the fun toys (Sternguard especially missed) I enjoyed an army that had awesome heroes, usable devastators and shamanistic superstitions. But what was I to do? Buy a whole new army? Instead I had my marines count as their wolf equivalents and bought what I needed to in order to create unique wolf units.

I now plan to try the same thing with BA, buying/converting sanquinary guard, baal predators, and sanguinary priests, while using my core of tactical and assault marine models.

Meanwhile I endeavor to come up with fluff to explain three organizations of combat doctrine in one chapter (as my codex marines were a homebrew to begin with) which is actually going rather well. I suppose it helps being an english major.

My question to you all is whether you consider this an alright thing to do? All of my friends had little issue with tactical marines as grey hunters or devastators as long fangs, but do you? If I put this army on the table, with its original color scheme and name, would you scoff or start rolling dice as though nothing was amiss?

[DrLove42]

Personally depends on the situation and the paint scheme.

If they're painted as say Ultramarines and you play them as wolves it might bug me a little but i'd still let them be used. Just remember you can take stuff from space wolves and BA (eg no wolves in a storm raven). I've seen a lot of standard marines "counts as" BA just so people can get more stuff into their army.

Apoc is obviously different as you say theres multiple chapters on the field

[BlackKnight15624]

I think it's fine as long as you can justify it to your opponent. Obviously, this is far easier with a homebrew chapter, as definitions of what a Tactical/Grey Hunter/whatever marine can be blurred far easier than with, say, an Ultramarines tactical squad trying to pose as a Grey Hunter. If you're going with a canon chapter, then stick to the codex that's out for them. However, since you're doing your own thing... well, do your own thing! More luck to you.

[DaveLL]

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would appreciate it if the regular tac squads you were using as a base for everything else (or at least the special units for each codex) looked nicer than is standard for a marine army. Essentially, if you want to regularly reuse one army's models for 3 armies, it would be nice to see that you put in at least 2 armies' worth of painting effort into them. That said, even if they looked terrible, I still wouldn't refuse to play you. *shrug*

[scadugenga]

As long as you were up front about it and clearly showed what model represents what unit choice I'd have no worries.

It's even easier if you aren't using one of the previously established chapters, so you have the freedom to move about. That's pretty much what goatboy does with his "Space Goats" and "Blood Goats" (or whatever it is).

As long as there's decent communication, it's all good.

[40kAlex]

Glad to see the same reaction I've seen on other forums, I was worried that only my friends were willing to let me do this and so my army wouldn't be able to enter a tournament as Wolves or Angels.

I use my own custom scheme, my whole army is painted (rather basically as I don't have any technique, but it is painted), and I always explain anything and everything to my opponent if they don't already know what they are looking at.

I use tactical marines as grey hunters and my assault marines w/o jump packs as BA assault marines and blood claws, while specialists such as sternguard, wolf guard terminators, sanguinary priests, and various HQ options are represented by unique models. I have seperate rune priests and librarian models, though my chaplains to flip between chaplain, reclusiarch, and wolf priest.

Thanks for the input, I hope to enter a few local tournaments with my wolves, though I'll be sure to talk to the TO first to make sure I they don't object to my wolves-without-wolfy-bits wolves.

[HsojVvad]

Nothing is wrong with it. I would gladly let you. Just hope you don't mind me asking, "uh, what is that agian?" a few times over and over again. I do not know what everything is so I rely on explanations anyway.

As long as you don't try the "yes he is holding a flamethrower, but it counts as melta" then say "no it's a lasgun" What ever you say before the game begins is fine with me.

[BuFFo]

Playing with proxies is fine. Just do it and have fun.

[Mystery.Shadow]

One of the things that I like is when an opponent uses a proxy and mentions the name of the proxy every time it performs an action.

Njal casting X on Y
Blood Claws running.
Long Fangs shooting at Z
etc

Marines proxying for Marines is ok in my book. Eldar proxying for Orks makes me wonder....

[DarkAngelHopeful]

I don't have a problem with proxies. I do it all the time. Heck, I used to play paper hammer with WFB. lol. The only thing I'm afraid of is home brewed rules, but I don't have much experience with them. I just know some people would try to abuse them. But I would still play against them and you.

But yes, proxy away!