The Question of Counts-As

[eagleboy7259]

It sounds like everyone is ganging up on Buffo just because his hobby experience isn't the exact same as the rest of the posters. Modeling, Painting and Collecting are all very important parts of our hobby. Gaming is up there, and sure its #1 for many people, but because someone enjoys the visual and dramatic experience that 40k offers I don't feel like he's necessarily wrong in denying that guy with proxies, unpainted and primed marines a game.

Secondly, experienced games who use proxies to powergame are every bit as bad, and in most cases, worse than hobby elitists. There is nothing wrong with the Space Marine Codex, the Space Wolves Codex or the Blood Angels Codex that should make you want to jump ship. If you play Chaos or even Black Templars / Dark Angels (pre or post FAQ) then I understand it a bit better because your costs are wrong, and GW has left you in the dust compared to the 5th ed books.

Third, 40k is a social thing. People play the game because the game is fun. However if the way you play the game is trampling on my experience than I reserve the right to not play you. Its the same way with every hobby - its not elitism - and if it is then who cares. I'm not going to expect a tournament fisher to come catch bluegill in my pond, nor would I expect every person in the bar to want to talk with me just because we are all drinking. It's just the way the world works.

[BuFFo]

I agree with your opinions fully Eagle.

Plenty of people in my area don't treat 40k as a Hobby, but as a game to just win. Luckily, some of them have dropped out of the 40k hobby and have started to get into another game more "their level" called Warmachine. I have a Legion army myself, but the play style just isn't my thing.

On a side note, I don't feel anyone is ganging up on me. Its all in good jest and fun here in the Lounge!

[HsojVvad]

Steel and Hjo, you guys are over reacting, and at the very least missed my point completely. I am not talking about what you guys said ONE BIT.

And of course, being the internet, YOU guys are the ones actually insulting me calling me a dick, a douche, etc... Not once did I insult ONE person in this thread for their opinion, nor did I insult anyone I play with.

Perhaps you two need to step back, learn to respect other people's opinions or at least first TRY to understand what that is opinion IS before rushing to conclusions. Neither of you seem to have an idea what I am about.

Darklink is able to hold an adult conversation with me just fine, I don't see why this is lost on you two. We have different opinions, and we are able to converse just fine without resorting to Warseeresque proportions.

You two can do much better than this. Once you guys can talk to me without acting like a Melissa, I'll respond to you.

Yes this being the interent, it's hard to know what the person was conveying. The quote I quoted you with is what I was comparing with. I do apoplogize for insulting, it wasn't my intent. I ment what you said, sounded douchey, not you.

So sorry if I was insulting you, that was not my intent. After reading your other post a bit down from here, I understand where you are coming from now. I just thought you would do this to anyone, like someone coming into the hobby and not sure what he wanted to play yet. I can see if it's the same person over and over agian doing it, I can fully understand now where you are coming from.

[Squirrel_Fish]

My two cents is that I only play casually; usually with close friends and occasionally venture out to the FLGS. Although I have my space marines painted up their own colors with a nice variety of conversions, I will generally run them as blood angels just because I find that the its more aggressive playstyle enjoyable compared to Codex Marines.

However, in the rare scenario where I want to simply try something different (Ie. Lets see what happens when I field 60 scouts with sniper rifles), the people I play with don't have a problem with it.

Basically; the way I see it is that having a Space Marine army is like having a spork. You're probably going to be using it as either a fork or a spoon (rarely both at the same time), but if you want to casually try something new, you have the option to do so.

[BuFFo]

So sorry if I was insulting you, that was not my intent. After reading your other post a bit down from here, I understand where you are coming from now. I just thought you would do this to anyone, like someone coming into the hobby and not sure what he wanted to play yet. I can see if it's the same person over and over agian doing it, I can fully understand now where you are coming from.

For the record, you are the cutest Vvad I have ever met, and I have met some hot Vvads!

[HsojVvad]

For the record, you are the cutest Vvad I have ever met, and I have met some hot Vvads!

LMFAO. Well, thanks... I am speechless.

[Commissar Lewis]

Yeah I can agree with Buffo in that if someone every week was flip-flopping from Wolves to Blood Angels to Vanilla Marines back to Wolves, then regular again, it would get real old. Especially if said person was doing it for powergaming reasons. It's one thing to proxy to try out an army to decide if you want to start said army, another to do it just to powergame.

[Dezmo1218]

Yeah I can agree with Buffo in that if someone every week was flip-flopping from Wolves to Blood Angels to Vanilla Marines back to Wolves, then regular again, it would get real old. Especially if said person was doing it for powergaming reasons. It's one thing to proxy to try out an army to decide if you want to start said army, another to do it just to powergame.

I know exactly what you're talking about here. We had a guy that (thankfully ended up leaving the LGS for college) that would never finish building an army; by using tons of marines without arms, he could make the excuse he was just "trying things out" but after a few months of pulling the same crap, we had enough of it. Like Lewis said, it's one thing to "try things out" and then go with it, and another to keep retooling your list every week with different codices entirely.

[steelmage99]

..., and another to keep retooling your list every week with different codices entirely.

Could you elaborate a bit, please?

I assume you mean that I shouldn't use the same models to represent different codexes, but that isn't what you are saying.

[Dezmo1218]

Could you elaborate a bit, please?

I assume you mean that I shouldn't use the same models to represent different codexes, but that isn't what you are saying.

Let's say the dude has a 2000 Pt *Codex* Space Marine army, alk unpainted, with no weapons on vehicles and no arms on any of the marines... (I've seen this before). First off, you give your poor opponent a headache as he's trying to keep up with all your proxies. Let's say he loses to my Blood Angels.

The next game he decides to field the same grey models as BA... the next week he'll field the same models as Grey Knights, then the next as Dark Angels, then as Chaos, etc etc... granted they're generic SM models and technically can be all of the above when it comes to different chapters, but there comes a point where this gets ridiculous and a direction needs to be decided.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "Counts-as" armies. Models that have been finished in such a way that they represent a faction other than what their models convey. I'm not bothered by a World Eaters army that "Counts As" Blood Angels by using the BA Codex, as long as they make sense and they stay consistent with the wargear, etc.

I'm currently in the planning stages of a "two-armies in one" army of my own, and I'm going to be modeling my units so that they represent both of the two different armies. But the project is based on pure fun, not to win me games. I plan on even rolling a dice pre-game, with 1-3 resulting in one codex, and 4-6 resulting in using the other. But I'm keeping what I'm doing a secret, for now.

So I guess I took my previous post in a different direction by just complaining about over-the-top lazy proxy players. Sorry.