The Question of Counts-As

[Lerra]

I almost never play the same list twice. My opponents, so far, haven't had any complaints because it means they get to play against a new list every week. Most people at my FLGS have one list that they've been playing for 5+ years, with only minor changes. They've all played each other a hundred times and they are bored of playing against those lists. I've got about 4-5k of space marines, and I've yet to run out of new things to try out. Last week I ran a list with 6 land speeders. Next week, I'm thinking of trying the same thing, but with all assault cannons in an assault-canon themed list. Maybe I'll try heavy flamers after that. I've also been itching to try out some Mortis-pattern Dreadnoughts. They look cool, but I'll have to switch codices for that list because the DA book doesn't have Mortis-pattern Dreadnoughts. Not a big deal with my group.

I can't see playing the game any other way. All of my minis are magnetized so that I can easily swap weapons, and I always play WYSIWYG.

[steelmage99]

Oh, I agree. Over-the-top lazy proxy players sucks.
But when the Sanguinary Guard is really Sanguinary Guard models, the Thunderwolf Cavalry is painstakingly converted Blood Crusher models and the Deathwing Terminator Squads are made up of actual Deathwing models, are we really that worried about the (WYSIWYG and painted, I might add) Assault Marines that happens to be Blood claws/Crusader Squads/Blood Angel Assault Marines every other time. Note that they are not painted as Space Wolves, Black Templar or Blood Angels, but in a totally different colour.

Are we really so sore about that fact that Marine players have the option to easily play as another marine codex (as they basically use the same models)?

Do we have a hard time understanding that the red-painted marines are Black Templars? As opposed to the black ones?
If they are WYSIWYG what is the problem?
All colour have basically been taken/associated with various chapters.

Can I field yellow painted marines as something other than Imperial Fists?
Can I field green painted marines as something other than Salamanders?
Can I field red painted marines as something other than Blood Angels?

See what I am getting at?

The problem isn't counts-as. It is the idiots that misuse an excellent way to play different armies.
I cannot imagine playing the same codex more than three or four times. Then I need a change.

I might change from having used Orks to using Necrons.
I might change form having used Tau to using Eldar.
And I might change.....here it comes.....from having used Blood Angels to using Dark Angels.

Why is it I have to stop using my grey (painted) marine models and change to a different colour just because I change codex?
It is still paid for, glued together, painted and WYSIWYG, for "insert-deity-of-choice-here"s sake!

Why do I keep hearing stuff like; "Well. because xenos-players have a harder time doing what the marine-players can do easily, then nobody should be able to do it!"? That just seems petty and narrow-minded to me.

[Deathula]

Personally using counts as every now and then for an army is cool with me, I dont have a problem with it. Guy at my local shop has a model that was not orgianlly a Fabius Bile model but only uses it as such, I would never have a problem with, stands out and does not look like any of the marines on the table.
Heck Im actually going though the process of converting my (almost) entire Loyalist army, minus those stupid scouts, and I'm using some of my Legion of the Damned ask 'Zerkers and the rest as Chosen, as it goes with the look I want.