Ghazghkull Thraka's Waaaagh

[Enemy5]

When you use Ghazghkull Thraka's "Prophet of the Waaaaagh!" ability, does the Waaagh last 2 full game turns, or 2 player (1/2 game) turns?

Can you use this ability on an opponent's turn? And if so, can you use it after he has been hit by a weapon, but before the saving roll?

[blackarmchair]

Yes you may use it on your opponent's turn, it lasts for 1 game turn (2 player turns).

It would seem that you may not do it after taking a wound but before taking a save as the rules for WAAAGH (pg31 codex: Orks) state that you must declare your Waaagh at the beginning of the shooting phase.

What I think is causing confusion is the portion of Ghaz's rules that say "can be summoned at any time". This is a VERY vague wording and if one wanted to employ a very strict interpertaion of RAW yes it is possible to declare the Waaagh! just in time to make a save.

However, the abiliity is designed mostly to give fleet to the army. It would seem silly if the ability allowed you to declare the Waaagh at a time when its main use is not employed.

Long story short, you could read it either way but its pretty clear what the intention is based on the wording of the Waaagh rule and through simple common sense.

[BuFFo]

1) It lasts 1 game turn / 2 player turns

2) It can be activated at ANYTIME after the first game turn, in any player turn at any moment for any reason. The term 'any time' is not vague in the slightest. Anytime means anytime, following the restriction of not being able to use it in the first game turn.

If it is your turn, and you hit Ghaz with 10 power fists, after you wound him 9 times, the defending player can activate the WAAGGH, giving Ghaz a 2++ save instantly.

He is that awesome.

[blackarmchair]

It is vague. In every entry in the Ork codex, nay in every entry regarding the use of abilities in 40k the entry typically states that an ability may be used at a specific point usually at the beginning or end of a phase.

As I said, if one wanted to interpert the RAW in a very closed-minded way it technically reads as you describe BuFFo - agreed.

My point was that I find it unlikely that the rule was intended to circumvent all previous convention and do something very unprecidented without specifically denoting that it was intended to do so.

Long story short, yes it can be read that way; I'd most likey use it in a competative game but you're kind of a dick if you do it in a friendly match.

[Leez]

It is vague. In every entry in the Ork codex, nay in every entry regarding the use of abilities in 40k the entry typically states that an ability may be used at a specific point usually at the beginning or end of a phase.

As I said, if one wanted to interpert the RAW in a very closed-minded way it technically reads as you describe BuFFo - agreed.

My point was that I find it unlikely that the rule was intended to circumvent all previous convention and do something very unprecidented without specifically denoting that it was intended to do so.

Long story short, yes it can be read that way; I'd most likey use it in a competative game but you're kind of a dick if you do it in a friendly match.

Which part of . . .

"Ghazgkull's Waaagh! can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first turn. It replaces the army's usual Waaagh! - this one is better.

Ghazgkull's Waaagh! lasts the remainder of that player turn and all the following player turn."p58 Codex: Orks

. . . is the vague part? Even the part describing the beginning/duration of the ability Prophet of the Waaagh! is written in generic "player turn" terms and not, as with the ability Waaagh!, "during his turn".

It's a bit bold to to call someone that wants to play by the rules a dick, especially when the rule in question is clearly written.

[BuFFo]

As I said, if one wanted to interpert the RAW in a very closed-minded way it technically reads as you describe BuFFo - agreed.

To be blunt, learn to read English, as the rule is very clear about what it does. Calling me close-minded in this context is quite ironic and hypocritical on your part.

[blackarmchair]

You are the one in need of an English lesson. You are conflating calling the interpertation closed-minded and calling you closed-minded.

I do not think that you are closed-minded, I do not know you and have no evidence on which to assume that you are; I am sure you are a pleasant and likable chap.

Flamewar aside, my point was at each and every instance in which Codex: Orks refers to the Waaagh! rule it specifically states when it can be used or it references another entry which states when the rule can be used. This is the standard for all rules and abilities in 40k. I find it hard to believe that this one single character's rule would circumvent that standard without specifically stating so.

Essentially what I am saying is that you are correct in a strictly RAW sense; however after contextualizing the question I think it becomes clear that there is something disparaging between what is technically written and what is intended.

I conceeded previously that there is nothing expressly printed to deny the ability to employ the rule in such a way. I simply stated that common sense (I know I know not so common anymore) dictates otherwise.

[DarkLink]

Essentially what I am saying is that you are correct in a strictly RAW sense; however after contextualizing the question I think it becomes clear that there is something disparaging between what is technically written and what is intended..

Trying to argue RAI is always a precarious position, especially when RAW is perfectly clear on the matter.

And I have to agree with Buffo. If anyone's being close-minded here, it's probably you, as you seem to refuse to accept what the rules say. There's no need to get worked up over something as stupid as the wording of a sentence in a book.

[ashnaile]

Ok, so your point is that every other instance where it mentions waaagh says start of your shooting phase.

Good thing his waaagh REPLACES the one you keep thrusting in our faces, and his can be used at any time.

The only dick here is you.

[BuFFo]

Ok, so your point is that every other instance where it mentions waaagh says start of your shooting phase.

Good thing his waaagh REPLACES the one you keep thrusting in our faces, and his can be used at any time.

The only dick here is you.

Now now... Don't be so harsh on him. He just has an opposing opinion. Wrong as it may be.

@Enemy5

You can use Ghaz's WAAAGH at anytime (after the first turn) as specifically indicated in his rules.