Experience From the Field on Shooting in 8th Edition in Relation to Cover

[DarkAngelHopeful]

Dear BoLS,

There seems to be a popular opinion on the forums right now that shooting isn't as good in 8th edition because of cover. I know that the BRB says to put at least D6+4 pieces of terrain down on the board and I can see how that would offer a lot more cover than previous editions.

However, I'd like to here what you have to say from your table top experience on the board. Has cover and D6+4 pieces of terrain really nerfed shooting as much as I am to believe?

Also, anyone with RBT (HE or DE) experience in the edition, how have those performed for you?

Thanks.

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

[Image]

Shooting is still a solid addition to any army in order to whittle down ranks, so I don't think it was nerfed that hard.

I'm of the camp that the game truly is won in Close Combat, but depending on your opponent, it could be won in shooting as well. Put simply, enough accurate artillery lays waste to my high elves. Oh Phoenix Guard, how I love you.

RBT's are okay. I don't know if they're worth 100 points anymore, and that's not simply because of the 2 wounds on the machine. More so, a friend of mine plays Empire and has been taking tactical advantage of TLoS by deploying his warmachines behind his own models. Of course, this puts his warmachines behind cover, but as the pieces he usually uses are template weapons, I'm bothered by the fact that being behind hard cover offers no detriment to the template based warmachines. RBT's on the other hand, cannot take advantage of this as they use BS.

Now, before anyone tries to argue the validity shooting through hard cover with templates vs BS-based weapons based on fluff, I'd point out that long bows have a volley special rule specifically suggesting that they can fire over intervening models. As such, I don't see why long bows suffer the penalty while template weapons do. In terms of pure mechanics, I simply don't think it's fair. *shrugs*

As such, RBTs are okay en masse, I suppose, but when you're taking 3 of them, I'd ask why not bring two units of archers.

Hope this helps!

[DarkAngelHopeful]

That is actually pretty helpful.

Everyone keeps saying that bolt throwers now only have 2 wounds. Where is that coming from?

Also would you rather have 6 bolt throwers or 50-60 archers?

[mynameisgrax]

Shooting is alright, but best done at either short range, or with a warmachine that doesn't use BS to hit. Shooting the traditional way is very difficult now, because with cover and 'long range/move and shoot' modifiers, you're usually only hitting on 6's.

[Old_Paladin]

Everyone keeps saying that bolt throwers now only have 2 wounds. Where is that coming from?

It's because of the new warmachine crew rules.
When a warmachine takes a wound, it loses it's wound, a crew member and an attack in close combat (there's no more randomizing between warmachine and crew); it's a lot like a chariot now, everything is lumped into one "amalgamanted entity"

Because the elven warmachines only have two elves, the theory is that the first wound kills an elf and drops the machine down to one melee attack, the second wound drops it to zero crew and no attacks, and effectively destroys the warmachine.


Of course, there are some warmachines that have different rules (the anvil of doom for example); and if you go by their examples, you'd lose an elf with the first wound, the second wound goes to the warmachine itself and you lose the second elf and warmachine with the third wound [which seems a lot more balanced with the 2 crew/3 wound warmachine set-ups].

[Kieranator K82]

Shooting is still quite viable. Might I say that Skinks with Blowpipes are a poisoned pain in the rear -and anywhere else the dart storm can get you. Thus far I've only played two proper games of 8th, and in both of them my Great Cannon has proved valuable. In my first game I downed a Warp Lightning Cannon in the first turn, and in my more recent battle my crack cannon crew shot a cannonball straight through a Stegadon's head, killing it instantly.

[mynameisgrax]

Shooting is still quite viable. Might I say that Skinks with Blowpipes are a poisoned pain in the rear -and anywhere else the dart storm can get you. Thus far I've only played two proper games of 8th, and in both of them my Great Cannon has proved valuable. In my first game I downed a Warp Lightning Cannon in the first turn, and in my more recent battle my crack cannon crew shot a cannonball straight through a Stegadon's head, killing it instantly.

That's a very good point. Skirmishers and light cavalry are both very good at shooting, since you don't get the penalty for moving and shooting. If they move within half their shooting range, they may very well be shooting without any penalty at all, which is indeed quite effective.

[scadugenga]

Not to mention the WE still get to move and shoot w/no penalty, and Waywatchers with a ranged killing blow ability and the uber-scout forest stalkers rule means they will be a painful distraction.

[Chuck777]

Shooting is still necessary because it gives you an additional phase with which to kill enemy models. Sure Cover Saves make shooting less viable but I can't really imagine an army doing terribly well with out some form of shooting. Even if all you do is take a rank off a big horde block, that's still one less rank to deal with.

[Majorcrash]

Playing an Empire army shooting makes up a bit of my army, but so far I am leading towards anything that has better then range 24" SO my handgunners are out but crossbows are in. also mortar are my mvps. All these nice hordes roaming around are so much groundmeat for my mortars. Cannons as always work great and are the only way of dealing with opposing war machines. Pistoliers are also a must have. Been very successful at catching that lone wizard with the vanguard move and gunning him down. All and all i think shooting is as strong as ever just less turns to do it in, oh and unless your fighting mark of nurgle.