How many points is TOO MANY in Apoc?

[lobster-overlord]

Hi all,

I have a massive Apoc game in two weeks, and in trying to build my list, I keep coming up with lists that are ranging in the 10's of thousands of points, and that is just MY army, not any of the other 4 to 7 players.

I'm running IG, BA and can field some Tau. I have dozens of tanks and transports that I want to field, but honestly, I don't know where to say STOP to my army list building.

In the past we've done point value maxes and then also model number limits (which really screws over the ork hoards and IG lists)

Thoughts or suggestions on point/model limits? At what point is a point value too much?

[erwos]

How long is the game scheduled for?

I'd first ask other players if they have any ideas. I'd also make sure you have some firm limitations on the number of super-heavies and str D weapons allowed.

The other question is "what kind of game do you want to have?" You don't need a coherent strategy at 20k+ points, because the game will devolve down into slinging a dozen giant templates every turn. At 10k, which I admit feels smallish, you've actually got to have a plan other than "how many titans and GCs can I fit in?"

[TSINI]

To be honest mate, list building is kind of irrelevant in apocalypse,

What I tend to do is ask

"how many points do you want me to chuck on the table?"

then simply keep sticking my coolest models on the board until I reach that limit.



I ran a 40,000 point weekend game a while back, and even though other organisers kept telling me "don't worry about points" it's always good to keep a rough tally on the players' army sizes, even if its only to the nearest 1000 points.

I doubt it will be a 'turn up and chuck everything you can on the table'

[lobster-overlord]

It's all day saturday, from noon until when ever.

We've joked about me just bringing my collection and then cutting back once all the others have added theirs up and figured out how much they could throw back at me. Although I could never run everything by myself....

thanks for the input.

[mynameisgrax]

It's not so much 'how many points' as 'how many units you have' aside from cheap transports and independent characters (which usually don't take long). It's the number of units you have to keep track of that really bogs down an apocalypse game.

Personally, I'd probably try to keep it at around 15 units (again, not counting lightly armed transports or characters attached to units), and certainly no more than 20. For these purposes, I'd count complex units (such as nob bikers with unique equipment) and Super heavies as 2 units each.

Anything more, and everyone's minds will probably break trying to keep everything straight.

[eriochrome]

I have played both 3K and 5K as a player and I think 3K is better for most games especially 1 day ones. I see some Apoc game set up where there is just deployment zones full of models. You want to still have movement options. Pick 1 codex and work out of that. We also like to have all super heavies/flyer/gargs declared while organizing to help balance the sides.

[Inquisitor Hate Machine]

I think you guys should put a firm time limit on the game. Say like noon to 6, 30 minute turns. That gets everyone active and in the game. Having taken part in some of the Preheresy Warhammer 30K apoc games and other pick up ones, having hard timed turns and an END POINT helped the games along. If not, you risk people losing interest or getting too worn out and not focusing on the game.

Also have a Side General and squadrant captains. Imagine a game with 11 people per side, each one with around 3K points. One player is the Side General, and then every 4 or 5 feet there is a quadrant captain. This lets one side of the table progress into shooting right after movement even if the other half of the table is still trying to fit all their tanks through some gates. It helps with record keeping.

Also make a rule that says "anyone on the other side may witness a die roll." I had a game where I fielded a battle company, and it was split on two parts of the board. Usually I let the quadrant captain on that side run that section of my force, or if it was the other sides turn, I'd let the captain witness the die rolls and pull models while I tended to the other side of my force. This keeps stuff moving and things organized as well.

With these simple rules, you can have very massive games run pretty smoothly.

[lobster-overlord]

IHM, those are some great ideas, thanks. I ran two battle companies one time, and another player was doing one and I the other. Play went very smoothly having split it up.

[Inquisitor Hate Machine]

IHM, those are some great ideas, thanks. I ran two battle companies one time, and another player was doing one and I the other. Play went very smoothly having split it up.

NP. We did a LOT of Apoc around here (at least once a month) and as such we have a lot of experience getting them going. add to that the Narritive tracks at Bols Con the past two years... some Apoc pros around here

Speaking of, I think we should arrange a new apoc game. My battle company has been itching for a fight

[Archon]

5K per person is a good amount of points - you can command 10K sure, but the chance to forget something is higher. A shooting phase of 10K imperial army can be very boring to the enemy

In my last apo game at the WE we played 6K per side - the game went smooth and only in the later turns we forget a charge here and there. We played roughly a day. For bigger games you should have a complete WE at hand.