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  1. #31

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    So since the Russki and Loanshark spamwave shows no sign of abating (95+ % of all account requests with a further couple of % at least more than questionable accounts) and the bots seem to have no problems to fool the recaptcha... Can we at least change the field "Additional notes" in the registration form to something like "State your interest in the Lexicanum" or "describe how you got into the hobby" and make it compuslory to fill out? I'd like to see a bot fabricate a convincing entry for that... Because honestly, I spent waaaaaay too much time on an often daily basis to try to verify request details to then decide if this could be a genuine request or just another bot! And tbh: why should I bother verifying users that can't be bothered to write a small sentence about why they should be granted access???

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor S. View Post
    So since the Russki and Loanshark spamwave shows no sign of abating (95+ % of all account requests with a further couple of % at least more than questionable accounts) and the bots seem to have no problems to fool the recaptcha... Can we at least change the field "Additional notes" in the registration form to something like "State your interest in the Lexicanum" or "describe how you got into the hobby" and make it compuslory to fill out? I'd like to see a bot fabricate a convincing entry for that... Because honestly, I spent waaaaaay too much time on an often daily basis to try to verify request details to then decide if this could be a genuine request or just another bot! And tbh: why should I bother verifying users that can't be bothered to write a small sentence about why they should be granted access???
    I feel like that would just bring too many steps. It would be easier to add a setting relevant question when first trying to edit, which usually keeps them out for a while.

  3. #33

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    Why "too many steps"? The field is already in the registration form, it just has to be turned to "compulsory" instead of "optional". And since a setting relevant question would have to be chosen from a list one would a) have to invent a large enough pool of such questions to foil bots and b) implement a new technical function into the wiki software and c) you could not exclude that you have accumulating sleeper bots that one day strike at once.

  4. #34
    Fly Lord
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    I'll go back and see what the difficulty is to make that one field compulsory.

    Some of the fields are easy to do that with and some aren't - mediawiki wierdness.

    I find it sad how few people never ever put anything in the additional info field - even legitimate people...

    -L
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor S. View Post
    Why "too many steps"? The field is already in the registration form, it just has to be turned to "compulsory" instead of "optional". And since a setting relevant question would have to be chosen from a list one would a) have to invent a large enough pool of such questions to foil bots and b) implement a new technical function into the wiki software and c) you could not exclude that you have accumulating sleeper bots that one day strike at once.
    It's not as much of a issue for the 40k side which doesn't need as much people, while the fantasy is kinda desperate for more editors. The list wouldn't have to be large, just one for each lexi with an incredibly obvious answer to anyone that knows minimally about the setting. Most bots don't bother to pass through that hurdle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigred View Post
    I'll go back and see what the difficulty is to make that one field compulsory.

    Some of the fields are easy to do that with and some aren't - mediawiki wierdness.

    I find it sad how few people never ever put anything in the additional info field - even legitimate people...

    -L
    Most people, myself included, value their anonymity and don't want to see their information plastered all over the internet.

    I've received complains on how the Lexicanum is much harder to sign up than wikia. Here's an example:

    https://www.tga.community/forums/top...use-your-help/

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
    It's not as much of a issue for the 40k side which doesn't need as much people, while the fantasy is kinda desperate for more editors. The list wouldn't have to be large, just one for each lexi with an incredibly obvious answer to anyone that knows minimally about the setting. Most bots don't bother to pass through that hurdle.
    A bot is a program that has no concept of "bothering". For them it makes no difference if they have to solve a recaptcha or answer a question about something they have no interest in apart from infiltrating it.

    Most people, myself included, value their anonymity and don't want to see their information plastered all over the internet.
    Who was talking about private information? What I want is that I see something about their favorite armies, how they got into the hobby, what specifics background area they are interested in or whatever as long as it is a personally formulated text that indicates they are a real person and not a bot. I couldn't care less about their CV or contact details or medical history or whatever dystopian nightmares this kind of people might have. I also couldn't care less if people prefer their real or made up names - not one single bit! I just want to see at first sight if somebody is a legitimate user without having to manually research their given data. I think that is more than reasonable.

    I've received complains on how the Lexicanum is much harder to sign up than wikia. Here's an example:

    https://www.tga.community/forums/top...use-your-help/
    [/quote]

    Sorry, but this is a totally useless "complaint" as it only says "is harder to sign up for" without actually saying WHY.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor S. View Post
    A bot is a program that has no concept of "bothering". For them it makes no difference if they have to solve a recaptcha or answer a question about something they have no interest in apart from infiltrating it.
    A bot can't figure out these kinds of answers by itself. The one how made the program will have to modify the bot itself for it to work. Most people often do not bother with this, and if they figure it out we can change the question again.

    Also if these bots are coming from the same sources wouldn't it be easier to ban the IP?

    Who was talking about private information? What I want is that I see something about their favorite armies, how they got into the hobby, what specifics background area they are interested in or whatever as long as it is a personally formulated text that indicates they are a real person and not a bot. I couldn't care less about their CV or contact details or medical history or whatever dystopian nightmares this kind of people might have. I also couldn't care less if people prefer their real or made up names - not one single bit! I just want to see at first sight if somebody is a legitimate user without having to manually research their given data. I think that is more than reasonable.
    That's still alot of private information to some people. People that the fantasy lexicanum does need.

    Sorry, but this is a totally useless "complaint" as it only says "is harder to sign up for" without actually saying WHY.
    The complaint is that it is harder to sign up than when compared to wikia. It's an accurate complaint since wikia is extremely simplified, through i'm not aware how they deal with bots.

    It's not a issue with a good solution, I prefer a easy setting question than making background compulsory, but that's just my opinion.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
    A bot can't figure out these kinds of answers by itself. The one how made the program will have to modify the bot itself for it to work. Most people often do not bother with this, and if they figure it out we can change the question again.
    That is like doing a fire insurance AFTER the house is already burning. And I am not sure if algorithms by now are not clever enough to find out by themselves answers to questions like "Who is the chapter master of the Blood Angels?".

    Also if these bots are coming from the same sources wouldn't it be easier to ban the IP?
    No. Every self-respecting troll factory knows how to hide where it is operating from and to permutate IPs.



    That's still alot of private information to some people. People that the fantasy lexicanum does need.
    I utterly fail to see how "My favorite character is Commissar Yarrick" or "I collect Ultramarines and Dwarves" or "I just looooove Horus Heresy novel number 467 "xyz" is sensitive "private" information. ESPECIALLY as no one will check if it actually is true. And come on, with the amount of really private data people willingly hand over to any social network THAT up there really is no issue.



    The complaint is that it is harder to sign up than when compared to wikia. It's an accurate complaint since wikia is extremely simplified, through i'm not aware how they deal with bots.
    It has been very long since I signed up to a wikia, I can just say that the Lexicanum registration form is no more complicated than that of any other site.
    Last edited by Inquisitor S.; 11-06-2018 at 01:49 PM.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor S. View Post
    That is like doing a fire insurance AFTER the house is already burning. And I am not sure if algorithms by now are not clever enough to find out by themselves answers to questions like "Who is the chapter master of the Blood Angels?".
    I honestly doubt it, but i'm not that aware on boting works.

    No. Every self-respecting troll factory knows how to hide where it is operating from and to permutate IPs.
    Figures.

    It has been very long since I signed up to a wikia, I can just say that the Lexicanum registration form is no more complicated than that of any other site.
    From what I understand it only requires Username, Password, Email and Birth Date.

    I utterly fail to see how "My favorite character is Commissar Yarrick" or "I collect Ultramarines and Dwarves" or "I just looooove Horus Heresy novel number 467 "xyz" is sensitive "private" information. ESPECIALLY as no one will check if it actually is true. And come on, with the amount of really private data people willingly hand over to any social network THAT up there really is no issue.
    It's really a matter of perspective. I'm a bit more touchy on putting extra hurdles as our side of the Lexicanum is not very active. I think this is also a problem because each lexicanum as it's own userlist that needs to be accepted by their own moderators. Uniforming this process is probably impossible without the Mediawiki expert.

    I hope that the fantasy split atleast attracts more people so we can fix some of these problems(which i'm ready and eagerly waiting for it).

  10. #40

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    Well, my attitude says if the prospective user is not willing to accept such a small "hurdle", he won't be willing to learn the rules either, so no loss

 

 
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