Quote Originally Posted by Gir View Post
So I take it you have the full list of weapon aps distributed by quantity that can appear in an army? Because if seems like your asking Dr Love to do that in order to prove his point, but you don't have to to prove yours.
I agree...but I'm going to humour him

This is based on the DE codex (an army designed to murder high armoured troops with ease so have a higher than average rate of low AP weapons)
The DE across all of their weapons have;

4 AP-
0 AP6
9 AP5
2 AP4
3 AP3
6 AP2
2 AP1

Against a standard army listing (which lets face it a popular armoured soldier with an average of a 3+ save) it would appear that their armour is ignored on 11 out of the possible 26 weapons.

However then once you factor is the AP1 weapons are Fusion Pistols (which you can have max of 2 per squad, and only one squad (Quins) can have them and Heatlances which are restricted to 3 units, and then 1 in 3 models, 2 in 5 and 1 monstrous creature they are few and far between compared to the AP5 rounds carried on every warrior, wych, jetbike, venom, Talos, scourge, Trueborn etc.

In my army list (your experience may vary) I use a lot of weapons. In my competition winning 1500 point list I throw out (per turn)

4 D3 + 2D6 AP-
0 AP6
65 AP5
0 AP4
0 AP3
10 AP2
0 AP1
2 APD6

So the balence of power is far outweighed in a standard list toward High AP values.

In the case of my list a normal marine with a 3+ save is getting an armour save of approximatly (assuming average D6 rolls on the variables) on 83 out of 93 shots a turn (a percentage survival rate in practicallity of 89%. Assuming math hit rates of 66% average passes the 3+ armour is being protected against 58% of all shots.

Upgrading this save to a 2+ means you get a save in...83 out of 93 shots. With the terminators armour pass rate that is...74% of wounds fired at them being saved.

With an increase that is identical to the 16% rise of upgrading the armour the maths shows that the variabilty in the amount of weapons has little to do with the terminators survival rate. As your comment is about AP value in weapons, not in CC power weapons and the like can be igonred. With most armies reliant on a AP5 weapons (Bolter, Shuriken Cannon, Pulse Rifle, Splinter Rifle and the like) with low AP weapons general being a statistically small part of an army list (with the exception of 1KSons CSM very few possible builds feature an modal AP average that is not 4 or greater)

And in the area of the jump from 3+ to 2+...I can't think of very many AP3 weapons. Of 3 in the DE codex 1 is an expensive upgrade to a CC unit (incubi and Bloodstone) and the other 2 are short ranged on one monstrous creature (Cronos). Now with battlecannons and Hotshot lasguns in mind I can't think of many other AP3 weapons(maybe just me...feel free to add any if you want...but i'm sure they wn't be too widespread), meaning most guns that give Terminators a save would also give a standard marine a save, greatly reducing the proposed percentile increase of survivability you quoted.

Finally do Invulnerable saves and FNP really add more complexity? How is it difficult to remember...this ignores my save, so i get to take a unmodfiable save of different value. FNP is just a 2nd set of rules. yes its more complex as it has more categories that make it ignorable (ID for example) but its no different to the save gifted through cover.

Finally Finally....these things your complaining about are not made by GW for short term marketing plans. These are rules in the rule book that overlooks all armies, favouring none over the other. If making agame that plays well counts as a markeitng ploy then its a pretty good one!