Harlies and Vect

[Drakonize]

I saw this on fritz40k:

Vect with his Dias, nightshield and flickerfield

His bodyguard, Harlequins, but more importantly a Shadowseer.

Does this mean to shoot at the Dias, you are under the 2d6x2(-6) penalty?

It seems fishy to me, but there is no rule 1.) Stating models who can't pick transports by themselves can't accompany Vect, 2.) Veil of Tears says "any unit she[The Shadowseer] is with".

All this clocks in at 650 points for a 13AV Ravager with 5+ save that can be shot at a maximum of 18 inches.

[Tynskel]

if the Transport is Vect's dedicated transport, then units may attach to him in the transport.

The Shadowseer's power does not protect the transport: the Shadowseer is not joined to the Transport, the shadowseer is joined to Vect and is just embarked in the transport. Remember, the shooting attack has to target the Shadowseer/unit attached to. The enemy cannot target the unit embarked (no visible model to draw line of sight).

If the Shadowseer's power was an aura (like Shield of Sanguinius), then the Transport would be protected.

[DarkLink]

Does this mean to shoot at the Dias, you are under the 2d6x2(-6) penalty?

It wouldn't be 2d6x2-6". It is 2d6x2 for targeting purposes, and -6" when you measure range. They are separate.The Shadowseer only affects whether or not you can draw LOS to the target, and the nightshield only reduces the range of your weapon by 6".

And Tynskel's right anyways, so it's a moot point.

[Archon Charybdis]

Also, Dias is a Portuguese surname, a dais is a raised platform. More seriously though, the army list entry for Vect on pg. 82 says he may take the Dais of Destruction for X points... and that's all. No options for upgrades, and no reference to the Raider options on pg. 91 (unlike all other units that can take a Raider as a transport). The Dais may count as a Raider for special rules like Duke Sliscus' Low Orbit Raid, but it can't take Raider upgrades.

[DarkLink]

That's just the base cost. If you look at the rules for the Dias of Destruction, it is a Raider with 3 dark lances and AV 13. Then it says "Other than this, it is treated exactly like a Raider (see pg. 44)". You are allowed to take upgrades, because it is treated exactly like a Raider that just happens to have a base cost of 200pts and gets 3 dark lances and AV 13.

[RIGHT-Titan]

I'm wondering if they FAQ the fact that you can't fire all 3 lances while moving.

[Drakonize]

Playing devils advocate, I think the wording of Veil of Tears needs to be clearer. It states ANY UNIT she is WITH. Not attached to, not joined by, with. There are three units (Vect, harlies, dias) travelling together, with each other.

The night shield point is definitely correct, but i think the combo is still useful because most tank busting weapons have Range>24", so the veil is effective, while the few remaining are usually melta type/range weapons, so the night shield will be useful.

I realize the RAI is obviously that this does NOT work, but with RAW I am on the fence.

[Tynskel]

RAI is RAW.
Bothers me when people say this; all rules are interpreted dependent on the context of how they are written. There is at no point in the 40k Rulebook, Eldar Rulebook (they also have Harlies with the same phrased entry), and Dark Eldar Rulebook that states that an embarked unit is 'with' such unit.

Why then, would with be 'all of the sudden' be reinterpreted to include everything they are 'touching'.

[Drakonize]

RAI is RAW.
Bothers me when people say this; all rules are interpreted dependent on the context of how they are written. There is at no point in the 40k Rulebook, Eldar Rulebook (they also have Harlies with the same phrased entry), and Dark Eldar Rulebook that states that an embarked unit is 'with' such unit.

Why then, would with be 'all of the sudden' be reinterpreted to include everything they are 'touching'.

Or the entire army for that matter? She is raiding "with" them. ;P

Ok, just wanted to try and see if this had merit. I will just have to fantasize about this "super Ravager".

[Greatereldanesh]

Question: I didn't see anywhere in the codex that Vect could take Harlies as a retinue, nor did I see that Harlies could take a transport. What am I missing?