Some 2011 rumours (GK, Necrons, 'nids 2nd wave)

[Maelstorm]

Right now Necrons have army-wide WBB and Gauss weapons (auto-glance on a 6). The Immortals (28 points) and better-left-at-home Pariahs (36 points) are already Toughness 5, I sincerely doubt they'll raise a Warriors toughness to 5. The Pariahs cost is close to Terminator levels for a 3+ armour save, 1 attack, no Inulnerable save and no WBB. How much is a single Death guard with FNP and a 3+ armour save? Hit by a unit of standard Assault Space Marines the "Elite" Pariahs fall like flies before they get a return attack (Init 3). What doesn't fall immediately gets swept at the end of the round. Would you pony-up Terminator point costs for that in your army? And to add insult to injury, charge $15 a figure for them?

My sincere apologies if I have offended anyone with my views on FNP vs. WBB. I play Necrons week-in and week-out and truly understand the strategical impact of changing WBB to FNP will have on the Necron game. I get frustrated by non-Necron players espousing that there is virtually no difference between the two.

Example:
With standard WBB - A unit of 5 Necron Destroyers are shot by Space Marines (Devestators/Long-Fangs, etc) with Lascannons at 48", 4 Destroyers go down. The next turn 3 Destroyers get back up with WBB for a 4 Destroyer strong unit that will move up 12" and get 12 shots back into the unit that hit them, 3 dead Space Marines. Rinse and repeat.

With "it's virtually the same" Vaniilla FNP - A unit of 5 Necron Destroyers are shot by 4 Space Marines (Devestators/Long-Fangs, etc) with Lascannons at 48", 4 Destroyers go down and are removed from the game. The next turn the 1 Destroyer strong unit moves up 12" and gets 3 shots back into the unit that hit them, 0 dead Space Marines. The next turn the undamaged Space Marines put 4 Lascannon shots into the final Destoyer, wiping out the unit.

How is that "virtually the same"? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

PLEASE don't paint my Necrons with a plain Vanilla FNP paint brush because it's the "simple" solution for people who don't understand the difference.

[andrewm9]

Example:
With standard WBB - A unit of 5 Necron Destroyers are shot by Space Marines (Devestators/Long-Fangs, etc) with Missile Launchers and Krak Missiles at 48", 4 Destroyers go down. The next turn 3 Destroyers get back up with WBB for a 4 Destroyer strong unit that will move up 12" and get 12 shots back into the unit that hit them, 3 dead Space Marines. Rinse and repeat.

With "it's virtually the same" Vaniilla FNP - A unit of 5 Necron Destroyers are shot by 4 Space Marines (Devestators/Long-Fangs, etc) with Missile Launchers and Krak Missiles at 48", 4 Destroyers go down and are removed from the game. The next turn the 1 Destroyer strong unit moves up 12" and gets 3 shots back into the unit that hit them, 0 dead Space Marines. The next turn the undamaged Space Marines put 4 Krak missiles into the final Destoyer, wiping out the unit.

How is that "virtually the same"? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

PLEASE don't paint my Necrons with a plain Vanilla FNP paint brush because it's the "simple" solution for people who don't understand the difference.

In your example you realize that the Destroyers woudl get their FNP roll right? Destroyers are Toughness 5 so no instant death and Krak missiles are AP3, so that violates none of the rules for Feel No Pain hence they would get a roll.

[Ssyrie]

In your example you realize that the Destroyers woudl get their FNP roll right? Destroyers are Toughness 5 so no instant death and Krak missiles are AP3, so that violates none of the rules for Feel No Pain hence they would get a roll.

Actually, in both examples the Necron player would have 3 Destroyers next turn. With 4 guys going down, mathhammer says half (2) would make their WBB or FNP roll.

The real difference is if there is a second unit that fires at the Destroyers. With FNP, 2 of the Destroyers might have to make a second FNP roll that turn. With WBB, only the surviving Destroyer can be brought down. If he survives or the unit somehow qualifies for WBB rolls, they only have to roll 4+ once to not die.

[DarkLink]

And yes i agree FNP is handed out to willy nilly these days...but its always fluff justifiable...Blood Rage for DE and Death Company, Religious Fervour for Sang Priests...

And since Necrons already have a very FNP-like rule, it won't be like GW is slapping the name on. They're just tweaking an existing rule and changing the name a bit.

Right now Necrons have army-wide WBB and Gauss weapons (auto-glance on a 6). The Immortals (28 points) and better-left-at-home Pariahs (36 points) are already Toughness 5, I sincerely doubt they'll raise a Warriors toughness to 5. The Pariahs cost is close to Terminator levels for a 3+ armour save, 1 attack, no Inulnerable save and no WBB. How much is a single Death guard with FNP and a 3+ armour save? Hit by a unit of standard Assault Space Marines the "Elite" Pariahs fall like flies before they get a return attack (Init 3). What doesn't fall immediately gets swept at the end of the round. Would you pony-up Terminator point costs for that in your army? And to add insult to injury, charge $15 a figure for them?

My sincere apologies if I have offended anyone with my views on FNP vs. WBB. I play Necrons week-in and week-out and truly understand the strategical impact of changing WBB to FNP will have on the Necron game. I get frustrated by non-Necron players espousing that there is virtually no difference between the two.

Yeah, well, all those complaints about cost and effectiveness of your units are completely irrelevant. A new codex will make them outdated since all your units will have new rules and points costs.

Remember, we're not talking about giving FNP to the units in the current codex. We're talking about giving FNP to the units in the next codex, where the unit rules and costs will be balanced with that consideration in mind.

[FullyPainted]

For what is worth I just prefer the use of universal rules. Would it be that difficult to say "All Necrons receive FNP regardless of AP or STR of weapon". That would make sense compared to most unit just not "feeling" the damage where the Necrons more rebuild.

[Maelstorm]

My apologies,Ii had Lascannons (AP2) on the brain when i wrote the post - I didn't go back and look-up the AP when I wrote down Krak missiles.

The example I gave was from a 1500 point Murder Valley campaign battle against Space Wolves. My 2 units of 5 Destroyers were hit by a group of Long-Fangs with LasCannons. 4 of my destroyers went down in the first volley of fire from the Long-Fangs. When 3 got back up with WBB, he said - "if you had FNP they would have stayed down". It really hit me then that FNP is going to be a huge loss for Necrons.

Again, my apologies for dropping in Missile Launchers instead of Lascannons. Although - -

We haven't even talked about rending weapons from every race - which also denies a FNP roll but is completely ignored by WBB. Or, how about stumbling in dangerous terrain? No FNP roll allowed, with WBB the Necron can get back up. The nerfs keep adding up...

In summary: FNP for Necrons still sucks.

[eldargal]

Stickmonkey says there is more Dark Eldar coming, but he didn't mention it because he doesn't know anymore about it than anyone else. So looks like there might be a few second waves next year.

[DarkLink]

I think it's also worth noting that Stickmonkey has mentioned that he's under a NDA regarding the Grey Knights until they get released, so he's not allowed to say anything about them at all any more.

[eldargal]

Yes indeed, oh and apparently some stores have a list of Grey Knight 'talking points' or some such thing, with a picture of a plastic GK terminator on it. This rumour didn't come from Stickmonkey though.

[Maelstorm]

Yeah, well, all those complaints about cost and effectiveness of your units are completely irrelevant. A new codex will make them outdated since all your units will have new rules and points costs.

This is the same company that botched it and waited 8+ years to correct it. Give them Toughness 5? FNP is still denied every time by an Imperial guard with a 5 point plasma pistol.

Arguments against FNP:
2x-3x more ranged weapons from every race will insta-kill even the highest Toughness Necrons.
Rending weapons from every race will now insta-kill even the highest Toughness Necron
Failed terrain tests will insta-kill all Necrons - an eons-old, all-metal Immortal stumbles in terrain and collapses in a heap..?
FNP It is handed out like candy in every new Codex - Even soft-as-sponge Imperial Guard can take it.

To make FNP equivalent to current WBB they will have to:
Ignore low AP ranged weapons that cancel FNP
Ignore the effect of Rending weapons
Allow a save from failed terrain tests
Stop giving it out like 5 cent candy to every new codex.

Don't make it a requirement to have a 200+ point Necron Lord within 6" to ignore FNP nerfs.

In the fluff why would the Imperium worry about Necrons? Broadcast to all Space Marines / Imperial Guards that Plasma/Melta and Lascannons put them down in one shot and check Necrons off the naughty list.