Vulkan and Stigma?

[thecactusman17]

I think that Chaos will get a pretty comprehensive codex I think, eventually. It wouldn't supprise me if they got it last or nearly last and got the biggest one yet. Allessio Cavatore recently mentioned (on an article that appeared on this site!) how the old Codex was designed to shy away from the Chaos Gods with the understanding that individual codexes, or a codex specifically for the legions, would eventually come out.

I think that sounds fine. A rundown of the existing CSMs shows a codex that really isn't focused much on the "chaos" portion of the CSM, and as such has few of the really crazy cool stuff that Chaos is meant for. They get some great gear, but by and large they are recolored, sometimes slightly respecced, marines. I am looking forward to some really cool marines in the future.

Wait, I hate Marines. Well, at least they'll be different beyond the damn paint...

[BuFFo]

I would love to see what they have install for the Chaos Space Marine Codex when they give it the 5th edition make over. Especially if it folows the "not Cheesy" trend of some of the newer codexes like Dark Eldar, Space Wolves or Blood Angels.

Don't even lump the master piece of balance and beauty with those two Marine abomination armies.

[Vaktathi]

After having literally a year go by playing nothing but Vulkan led SM armies, I don't think I'll ever get over seeing him as "cheesy". He's still a relatively default choice for most C:SM armies, with really no thought required to utilize what he brings to the army (include in army, your guns are better, use him like you would any other SM Captain, but he's slightly better in CC too). That said, not as bad as C:SW.

[somerandomdude]

with really no thought required to utilize what he brings to the army

That's because, he doesn't really give you a whole heck of a lot.

In a 2000 point army, you'll include 19-27 melta/flamer/hammer weapons. The more you include, the less you have for long range suppression/anti-tank/anti-infantry. All of that is for 190 points.

So, for 7-10 points per weapon, you get twin-linked/mastercrafted. That seems pretty reasonable, and if they gave the option in a codex somewhere (they probably do I just can't think of one) that's probably what it would cost.

Sure, you can say that you've got a beefier CC Captain, but A) who uses Captains anymore and B) you'll either be using him with the TH/SS which don't need the help or using him with a Tac squad/Sternguard who will probably still struggle with combat.

All he does is take SM from an effective multi-range army to a (move effective) dual range army. In order to properly utilize Vulkan (and not spend a lot of points on nothing), a SM player has to ignore all of those great things like Rifleman Dreads and Predators.

Also, points are at a premium in all lists, particularly SM lists, so you're either giving up on a Librarian (nearly mandatory for what he brings), or there's another 100+ points off your melta-fund.

I never understood why people thought Vulkan was so cheesy...

[DarkLink]

There is a little more though to bringing Vulkan than one might think.

Vulkan buffs flamers and meltas. Those are very short ranged weapons. That makes you vulnerable to counter assault, and you don't have Chapter Tactics to run away like normal SMs. Meaning that, more so than non-Vulkan armies, you have to design your list to be able to handle being in combat.

Of course, as he master crafts thunderhammmers this just means you take some THSS terminators.

[lowdog]

In this thread alone I've seen people complain about vanilla builds, IG builds, wolf builds, blood angel builds, tyranid builds, and the possibility that DE might have "cheesy" builds.

If everyone is cheesy, then doesn't that cancel out and mean no one is cheesy? That it's just the current state of the game?

[BuFFo]

In this thread alone I've seen people complain about vanilla builds, IG builds, wolf builds, blood angel builds, tyranid builds, and the possibility that DE might have "cheesy" builds.

If everyone is cheesy, then doesn't that cancel out and mean no one is cheesy?

Nope. This just means people are ignorant and have no clue what the reality of what they are talking about is.

That it's just the current state of the game?

Online it is.