6th edition changes you would like?

[Connjurus]

Hmm. There isn't an easy solution to the Top-of-Turn-One alpha strike problem. It may be more of a codex problem than a game system problem though (I'm looking at you, Imp Guard).

The only solution I can think of is that, on turn 1, the player who goes first only gets to "activate" half their army. So only half of their army's units can move/shoot/assault, and then the opponent can respond with their full army on the bottom of the turn, and then the rest of the game goes on as normal.

Well, the player that gets first turn is the "attacker" right? To represent them "attacking", howabout they're forced to hold half their army in reserve on the first turn, to have their forces just arriving at the battle, just engaging with the other player's defensive line, and then have the ones that the first-turn player DOESN'T want to be actually "in reserve" arrive at the END of the turn?

[Lerra]

I really like that idea.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Hmm. There isn't an easy solution to the Top-of-Turn-One alpha strike problem. It may be more of a codex problem than a game system problem though (I'm looking at you, Imp Guard).

There actually IS a solution present in the 4rth Ed rules.
I'm more than a little surprised that ALL missions didn't get the "Concealment" special rule. Most things deployed on the table turn 1 would be able to claim cover saves (even when not in cover!) as long as you haven't taken any actions yet.

This is a valid way to limit the turn 1 alpha strike. Unfortunately it will make assault/mid range armies stronger as they can get to their preferred ranges with less damage.

[Galadren]

There actually IS a solution present in the 4rth Ed rules.
I'm more than a little surprised that ALL missions didn't get the "Concealment" special rule. Most things deployed on the table turn 1 would be able to claim cover saves (even when not in cover!) as long as you haven't taken any actions yet.

This is a valid way to limit the turn 1 alpha strike. Unfortunately it will make assault/mid range armies stronger as they can get to their preferred ranges with less damage.

Yeah, but if you go second on turn 1 and you're already down a sizeable portion of your army, and you still need to cross the table.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Yeah, but if you go second on turn 1 and you're already down a sizeable portion of your army, and you still need to cross the table.

That's the way it is currently. Going second on turn 1 with an army that really wants to start on the table, against a much better shooting army, often leads to large chunks of your army never even getting a turn. Concealment would give most of those units some form of cover save; probably a 5+ or even some kind of free "Stealth" to a unit that hasn't moved/shot/ran yet.

This means that the person going first will have less effective shooting and the person going second will have much more effective shooting due to not losing as many units/models and no Concealment for enemy units that took actions.

[doom-kitten]

Welp in Flames of war the player who goes first is unable to fire any of their artillery on the first turn they can move it and such but can't shoot, this is meant to represent the guns locating their targets and preparing their ammunition supply. It wouldn't be difficult to incorporate this into 40k they'd just have to specify what is artillery, additionally I think units should be able to do more when gone to ground, historically they didn't lie their being shelled, they'd poke their heads up to take shots. And pinning, pinning really needs to be revised just because your fearless doesn't mean your stupid and when your being torn up by bullets you don't just go meh.

[Archduke]

I really like 5th edition rules overall, things I might change are really just the rules for mission deployment and such.


Spearhead + bases almost always equals a draw. Dawn of War is just not fun. KP is stupid, VP is significantly better which is why tournaments almost exclusivly use VP instead because KP rules are really wierd when some armies can bring a 3-5 kp army at 1850 (marines, Ig using platoons, etc). Two of the deployment varients in the book are pretty much the same most of the time (bases and d3+3 objectives). Maybe something where you must keep your hq alive or something might be fun instead (maybe called headhunter).

I terms of rules besides that I am pretty happy with them. Generally I think most imbalace in 40k comes from the codeces rather then the rule book.

[DarkLink]

None of those solutions are fair to the player with first turn. The answer to avoiding alpha strikes is already in the rulebook, under the "play smart" section.

Seriously, though, an appropriate amount of LOS blocking terrain on the board and intelligent deployment on behalf of the second turn player should mitigate the damage. Yeah, sure, you might get really lucky and blow their whole army off the board because your dice are on fire and they can't make a cover save, but that's just unavoidable variability in the dice. Screwing over the player with first turn is not the answer to the problem.

And frankly it's not really all that much of a problem. IG and DE can alphastrike, but DE are also way fragile so they need to be able to do a ton of damage quickly. And IG are very potent, but they're not unbeatable by any means.

[msg101]

That's the way it is currently. Going second on turn 1 with an army that really wants to start on the table, against a much better shooting army, often leads to large chunks of your army never even getting a turn. Concealment would give most of those units some form of cover save; probably a 5+ or even some kind of free "Stealth" to a unit that hasn't moved/shot/ran yet.

This means that the person going first will have less effective shooting and the person going second will have much more effective shooting due to not losing as many units/models and no Concealment for enemy units that took actions.

I like this idea. I also think this is why you need to play the game with a at least 25% (preferably more) of the table having terrain. This allows both players to hide their units and avoid getting shot to hell in the first turn.

[Connjurus]

None of those solutions are fair to the player with first turn.

And yet the Daemon codex does my suggestion anyway, only worse...