Storm Ravens in Apocalypse

[Bean]

Here's a few interesting questions I would like to ask:

- Are flyers immune to D weapons? Are flyers immune to blast weapons which has not scattered?

- Flyers will still be affected by Str8/9 weapons, correct? Apoc games are also known for the amount of Str 8~10 weapons being flung left and right...

- you will have to make a model a flyer by "buying" that through an apoc formation now, wouldn't you?

- Also: quite a lot of "new" GW models have older Imperial Armor rules... which declares them as flyers (see: Valkyrie, sister of the Vulture flyer). Would you then deny their "default" flyer-capable chassis from flying?

In the end, Mr T has it correct: Apocalypse games are "Story mode" game, to play it competitively is downright impossible (and expensive too). For each game of Apocalypse, there should be a "Game Master" or similar third party authority to hammer out what is allowed and disallowed, or the game would automatically be a bust, bogged down by rules arguments...

Flyers are immune to weapons which don't roll to hit. This includes all blast and template weapons whether they scatter or not. Since almost all Destroyer weapons are blast weapons, this means that flyers are immune to most destroyer weapons. Notable exceptions are the Necron Pylon and the main gun on the Silver Tower.

[Gir]

That's assuming there are Destroyers all over the board, which depends entirely on the group and the person organizing. That said, even if Destroyers are plentiful, all of the ones I can think of (besides potentially the Gaze of Mork) are blast weapons. By just saying Valks and Storm Ravens can be flyers for free, you're effectively making them immune to D weapons, significantly more resilient, and able to fire all of their weapons anywhere on the board-- all for no extra points.

You do loose the ability to drop troops.

Also, Necron pylons make a MESS of flyers (Heavy 3, strD AA)

[Archon Charybdis]

Are flyers immune to blast weapons which has not scattered?

Already been covered by Bean, but yes. Unless it has the AA special rule, a blast weapon cannot hit a flyer.

Flyers will still be affected by Str8/9 weapons, correct? Apoc games are also known for the amount of Str 8~10 weapons being flung left and right...

I tend to think of this as the Apocalypse Fallacy--there's a whole bunch of big awesome stuff you can field, so nothing should be a problem. Except, everything scales up for your opponent too, which means there will also significantly more targets your anti-vehicle weapons need to be shooting at. You could just focus fire on one 200pt flyer until it's dead, but it's flyer special rules give it a significant advantage and it'll take a inordinate number of points to deal with.

- you will have to make a model a flyer by "buying" that through an apoc formation now, wouldn't you?

No, and that's been my entire point of contention. Simply declaring your fast skimmers to be flyers makes about as much sense as declaring your ordnance to be a Destroyer--its a significant advantage that you should pay for.

One self-correction, upon checking I found out the Bellerephon formation for Vendettas actually costs 150pts and grants an additional asset, which seems reasonable to me. I had been told by the one guy I've seen use it that it didn't cost anything and simply made Valks/Vends into flyers.

- Also: quite a lot of "new" GW models have older Imperial Armor rules... which declares them as flyers (see: Valkyrie, sister of the Vulture flyer). Would you then deny their "default" flyer-capable chassis from flying?

If they want to pay the old IA points cost for it, of course not. I simply object to granting a model significant advantages without a commensurate points increase.

You do loose the ability to drop troops.

Also, Necron pylons make a MESS of flyers (Heavy 3, strD AA)

You lose the ability to deploy them normally, but you can still make a drop run, which is safer really than Skies of Blood. I did forget about the Pylon though, that is nasty for Flyers.

[Tynskel]

Most IA point costs are way too high.


Also, depending on who you play with: I have played games where jumping. Out of a storm raven/ thunder hawk, because of the assault ramp rules, allows you to charge. Makes Dante with a sanguinary guard squad pretty sick!

I have seen Dante win a 100k point game because of that move. 400 points! But thats what I like about apoc, it allows these epic characters to be epic!

[Gir]

You lose the ability to deploy them normally, but you can still make a drop run, which is safer really than Skies of Blood. I did forget about the Pylon though, that is nasty for Flyers.

My friends have always played you can't make dropping runs unless your in hover mode for this very reason.