Falchions Nerfed. Really?

[Tynskel]

As someone else said in another thread, you're getting a +1 Force Weapon, Daemonbane, "Can be stacked +1S multiple times" Attack on a dude who's not going to die anytime soon...

That was me!

[Tynskel]

Sorry, but I just don't buy the "but it's another force weapon" argument. It's not another force weapon, it's another attack. I don't get to super force weapon you.

the point is that most cases that add +1 attack for free are increasing attacks on non-power weapons.

There is a significant advantage to gaining +1 attack for a power weapon, let alone a strength buffing daemonbane force weapon attack.

anytime you are adding +1 attack to power weapons, you have to pay through the nose: 15 points for a power weapon, or lets say death company, the models are already 35 points each, AND you must pay 15 for the power weapon.

or look at vanguard 30 points each AND you must pay 15 points for the power weapon.

Space marine sgt. they are 30 points + 15 for the power weapon.


You are not going to win me over for paying 5-10 points for Force Weapon, strength enhancing, Daemonbane weapons is too many points.

[scadugenga]

the joke really lies in the pricing for other units.

would you rather have a 2A GK with a base lds of 8 for 30pts or a 3A Purificator with a base lds of 9 for 29pts?

Shhh!

It's GW's secret marketing ploy to make you take/buy Crowe so you can field your purifiers as troops.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I was a bit surprised to learn that people needed it to be FAQed. I had assumed that you only got +1 attack for 2 close combat weapons, not +1 and another +1.

I still think they're pretty awesome, but only on the right troops; on Terminators and Strike Squads, Halberds are the only choice that makes sense to me, because +2 Initiative makes your squads significantly more survivable as you'll take less hits (from everything except Genestealers and a few other elite CC specialists).

However, given to Purifiers, Falchions work because they're only 3pts more expensive than Halberds for them, and the amount of attacks you can inflict is horrible.

Hence, everything in my army has Halberds except Purifiers (who are going to go off Gaunt/IG/Ork/Guardian hunting, and leave the elite CC to the Psycannons).

[Kawauso]

I'm also surprised that people are so shocked by this.

Heck, the last issue of WD even specifically called out falchions as granting +1A at one point (page 61, under "Nemesis I Name Thee").

[DarkLink]

No one cares about White Dwarf. It's just empty GW fanservice. If they ever start adding more stuff like the Eldar Nightspinner, then it might be interesting.

or look at vanguard 30 points each AND you must pay 15 points for the power weapon.

Space marine sgt. they are 30 points + 15 for the power weapon.


You are not going to win me over for paying 5-10 points for Force Weapon, strength enhancing, Daemonbane weapons is too many points.

Except all these examples is taking a non-power weapon guy and giving him a power weapon. A falchion, however, is taking a guy with I6, or a better invulnerable save, or a thunderhammer, and losing that and replacing that bonus for a certain number of points.

And all of those 'for 10 points per model, you can get a bonus attack' upgrades suck anyways. Taking a 20pt model and making it 30pts for a measly +1A is stupid. It's a poor upgrade choice in several codices, and in the case of falchions it's bad because the other NFWs are so good.

[Bean]

I play paladins, and I'd pretty much always rather spend 5 points master-crafting a halberd than buying falchions--master crafting is very similar to buying an extra attack, and that way I get the +2 initiative, too.

[Kawauso]

No one cares about White Dwarf. It's just empty GW fanservice. If they ever start adding more stuff like the Eldar Nightspinner, then it might be interesting.

That's got nothing to do with anything.
It's written by the guys who make the game.
If they say an item works a certain way, guess what? It probably works that way. That's all I was saying. :P

[BrokenWing]

Since I haven't looked at a WD in years, I'm just going to ignore it for this argument.

Let's all be really clear as to what Falchions actually do.

They give a model +1 attack. They do not give it "an extra force weapon" (whatever that even means), they don't give it another "demon bane, strength enhancing weapon" because demon bane is a rule the Grey Knight has, not the weapon, nor would having two of them actually accomplish anything extra special anyway and they do not enhance the GK's strength, that's a psychic power you already pay for when you buy the squad.
If you have a force weapon, and you pick up a knife, it gives you +1 attack. In this case, you're picking up a shiny knife, that gives you +1 attack.


Lets look at it from the point of view of Bob the Terminator (hi bob). Bob has a 4+ invulnerable save in close combat and 2 attacks, 3 if he charges. If his friend Fred drops his force weapon and picks up a flag, he now has 3 attacks, 4 if he charges. Now let's say Bob wants another attack. Well, now his invulnerable save just got worse, and he paid 5 points to do it. He gets another attack but see the frown? That's because he had to pay 5 points for something that costs everyone else 1 point and lost his better save in the process. Bob is sad.

Or Bob could get a worse invulnerable save but strike at initiative 6, meaning he'll probably just kill whoever was going to hit him anyway. This is free. Bob is happy again.

I'm not saying Falchions should cost only one point per guy, or be free (Although Bob might make that argument) but if you want people to take them more frequently, 5 points is probably too much. There is still some room for debate with Bob though, because it's only 5 points.

Now if you look at Jim the Interceptor, he has to pay 10 points. This makes him pretty unhappy, because he's probably going to have fewer of his Interceptor friends hanging around. If he doesn't, his player is going to be *really* unhappy, because he paid 100 points to give a squad what amounts to an extra close combat weapon, that's pretty lame.

I think Falchions probably have the strongest case for usability with Purifiers. They cost 5 points and Halberds cost 2, the difference between them and Terminators is that Terminators are losing abilities to take Falchions, Purifiers are not. My guess is Frank the Purifier will have a big grin on hi s face either way (but not Timmy the Gaunt).

[Regnir]

That's got nothing to do with anything.
It's written by the guys who make the game.
If they say an item works a certain way, guess what? It probably works that way. That's all I was saying. :P

Actually, WD battle reports aren't the greatest place to take rules clarifications from because it is quite common for the individuals writing the report/playing the game to make mistakes and then print those mistakes. It's happened quite a bit in the last few years.

Though you're certainly correct that DarkLinks reasons for not paying attention to a rules issue in a WD battle report certainly have nothing to do with the topic at hand.