Grey Knights Vs Dark Eldar

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

So, this late summer/Autumn sees the start of a big 40K campaign happening for my club, and the main protagonists are Dark Eldar, Eldar and GK, Guard and likely some other Marines at some point. The kick off match is a spectacular of my GK Vs Dark Eldar. Points aren't an issue, here's what I have model-wise:

Draigo
Librarian
Crowe
Stern
10xPurifiers (currently with Halberds, 2 with Incinerator)
5xInterceptors (Halberds and Incineratorx1)
Purgatorsx5 (4xPsycannons)
Paladins or GK Terms x 17 (1 Ward Stave and psycannon, 1 D/Hammer, 1 Falchions, 1 Apoth/Sword, 5 Swords, the rest halberds and psycannonsx4)
2 Stormbirds
Rhino, Razorback and Land Raider (two are S Wolves, but meh)
2 Dread Knights (both have NG Swords, One has psilencer, other has psycannon and Hv Incinerator)
2 Venerable Dreadnoughts (I don't like Psyrifle, have had better experiences with Lascannon in all honesty - I know you guys swear by them, but that's not been my experience, especially Vs Guard)

I have new packs of GK Terminators and PAGK ready to add to this.
Personally, I am thinking Paladin overload (I don't rate Terminators to stave off mass firepower) - but what should I be looking out for? What should my tactics be? And what to do with my unassembled minis?

[newtoncain]

if the De palyer is smart and knows he is playing GKs = FF and NS on all of his vehicals = your range 24 is now range 18 with 5+ invul.

[DrLove42]

Any Eldar player worth his salt playing GK will take a farseer with Runes. You'll be taking every Physic test on 3D6 and Perils 50% of the time...

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Cool, so far I have answers to those - Vindicare should do the DE vehicles some damage, or sheer weight of fire - luckily psybolts can take them out, so most of my army has a shot at that.

Farseers are different - last time I hit it in turn 2 with Mindstrike Missiles - that sorted him out.

Other suggestions for dispatching these welcome though

[DrLove42]

Vindicare will do the job double quick against a Farseer as well...i shield breaker and hes got no save (they only get invulns)

One thing Eldar of all varieties hate (especially me) is having the battle dictated to them. They need the speed and ability to strike where they want to win. A stormraven dropping a Dread straight were they don't want it is a pain in the ***

[Blood Lord Soldado]

Heavy incinerator is very strong vs DE.

Negates FF and is unaffected by nightshields basically.

I seen a dude get pretty luck and down a venom and raider in 1 turn with 1 well placed shot.

Jumping heavy incinerator Dreadknights are pretty hard to deal with.

Dok on my Blog has a lot of detail on those shenanigans, as well as other GK strats.

[thecactusman17]

So, this late summer/Autumn sees the start of a big 40K campaign happening for my club, and the main protagonists are Dark Eldar, Eldar and GK, Guard and likely some other Marines at some point. The kick off match is a spectacular of my GK Vs Dark Eldar. Points aren't an issue, here's what I have model-wise:

Draigo
Librarian
Crowe
Stern
We eat the elite armies for breakfast. The fewer models on the board, especially with 3+ saves, the better for us. Keep that in mind.

10xPurifiers (currently with Halberds, 2 with Incinerator)
Surprisingly, this isn't a bad setup even though most people would prefer Psycannons. Incinerators always have the same range against our vehicles. Halberds will keep you and your opponent going at the same time in CC.

5xInterceptors (Halberds and Incineratorx1)
Purgatorsx5 (4xPsycannons)
Critical assault and shooting units, but be aware that your Purgators are going to be nearly useless until his vehicles go down if he has nightshields. Place them in the center of the board and 1-2 levels up if possible, deepstrike if you must to get that to happen.

Paladins or GK Terms x 17 (1 Ward Stave and psycannon, 1 D/Hammer, 1 Falchions, 1 Apoth/Sword, 5 Swords, the rest halberds and psycannonsx4)
We don't care. Safely ignored 90% of the time, especially Paladins. The ONLY way you can deliver these is to put them in the birds or DS them on top of a critical objective that we already control or placed with the expectation that only we could control it.

2 Stormbirds
These are going to be critical vs. DE. This is your primary delivery mechanism for anything you want to get into assault, and it's still going to take some doing to make that work if your opponent is focused.these are the first two units to affect with Grand Strategy, and you want to give them scout.

Rhino, Razorback and Land Raider (two are S Wolves, but meh)
What sort of Landraider? The Landraider is probably best served by taking lascannons or Flamestorm templates. In each case, you won't worry about range of guns to his vehicles.

2 Dread Knights (both have NG Swords, One has psilencer, other has psycannon and Hv Incinerator)
The incinerator here is going to be one of your best weapons. Weapons with templates aren't reduced by Nightshields, and you can position them to hit multiple enemy vehicles or units.

2 Venerable Dreadnoughts (I don't like Psyrifle, have had better experiences with Lascannon in all honesty - I know you guys swear by them, but that's not been my experience, especially Vs Guard)
Lascannon/ML dreads are great for dealing with DE vehicles with their long range, and the small blasts do good vs. Infantry.

I have new packs of GK Terminators and PAGK ready to add to this.
Personally, I am thinking Paladin overload (I don't rate Terminators to stave off mass firepower) - but what should I be looking out for? What should my tactics be? And what to do with my unassembled minis?

Paladins tend to be underwhelming vs. Dark Eldar for a few reasons. First off, S8 AP2 weapons on almost everything means that you quickly lose these guys to ID from around the army even with an apothacary. Second, they are going to suffer the same range-reducing effects that any other GK mid-range shooting unit will when firing on Dark Eldar vehicles, and many players love fully mech'd DE for the sheer speed. You are going to invest almost half of your army into a single unit leaving far less to deal with his longer range and faster assaults.

[Xas]

you cannot make a stormraven scout with grand strategy. only infantry, monstrous creatures or walkers.

[Xaereth]

Heavy incinerator is very strong vs DE.

Negates FF and is unaffected by nightshields basically.

I seen a dude get pretty luck and down a venom and raider in 1 turn with 1 well placed shot.

Um... Flickerfield is an invulnerable save, meaning that you'll always get it unless it's something that specifically negates invulnerables, which Heavy Incinerators do not.

Figured you should know.

[DarkLink]

Grey Knights are practically purpose-built for destroying DE. Every GK unit can kill DE in both shooting and in CC. It's a big uphill battle for DE against a good GK list and player.

GKs can't take lots of losses, and DE need to get into close combat to do that sort of damage. GKs will easily outshoot DE armies thanks to all those storm bolters, psycannons and psyrifle dreads, so the DE player needs to be able to open up a couple Rhinos and wreck whatever's inside. If you can do that before the GK player can blow you away, you have a chance at winning.

Frankly, though, every single DE game I've played I've been very close to tabling my opponent by turn 5. Against shooty mech-based DE, I just blew him away. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. Another guy tried out a more CC wych centered army, with aether sails, and he faired better because he was able to get some stuff into CC and take out a few units, but I was still able to blow him away fairly easily.

I haven't played against webway portal DE, so I don't know how they would fare. But in general, against GKs the faster and more aggressive the DE army is, the better. If you can't be aggressive and do a lot of damage, you won't beat GKs with DE.



As for GK advice against DE:
1. One might think that Terminators/Paladins would suck against DE, due to all the lance weapons. One would be wrong. Take them, give them as many psycannons as you can, use Rhinos for a bit of cover and shoot the crap out of any DE that get close. Then counter assault with the Terminators to finish anything that gets close.

2. Spam psycannons, and hide behind Rhinos for cover. It'll be like shooting fish in a barrel. Use the Rhinos to block the DE charges once they get close enough, and you should buy yourself enough time to shoot up everything that gets close before it can seriously harm you in CC. When you have an opportunity, which you will with all your different guns that can kill DE vehicles, take out his fire support units like Ravagers.

3. Spam Psyrifle Dreads. Nightshields/flickerfields or no, a Psyrifle Dread allows you to pick one DE vehicle per Dread each turn and tell your opponent to remove it from the board.

4. Castle for the first few turns, then spread out to grab objectives once you've taken apart the majority of his army.

5. Librarians are great against DE, thanks to the Shrouding. Coteaz is awesome as well, since DE don't like Sanctuary much and hate cheap psybacks. Driago will save some Paladins from being ID'd. GMs and the other HQs are decent, but not quite as useful.

if the De palyer is smart and knows he is playing GKs = FF and NS on all of his
vehicals = your range 24 is now range 18 with 5+ invul.

A smart DE player has flickerfields on almost everything anyways, and possibly some night shields too. But, yes, both are great against GKs.

However, GKs can put so many rounds downrange that a 5+ save won't help much, and psyrifle dreads don't care about night shields. Every good GK list should have some psyrifle dreads, limiting the usefulness of night shields.

Aether sails are a good upgrade against GKs, since they let you get into combat faster which helps prevent you from being shot to death before doing anything useful.

Any Eldar player worth his salt playing GK will take a farseer with Runes. You'll be taking every Physic test on 3D6 and Perils 50% of the time...

This only really hurts GK Librarians. Almost all other GK psychic powers are either CC only (where GKs already have an advantage over eldar due to I6 and MEQ statline)

What's really going to make the difference in eldar vs. GK is whether or not the GKs can take down the eldar vehicles. Since eldar vehicles are tough, they might survive to contest. On the other hand, with so much str 7/8 shooting there probably isn't a better army for killing eldar than GKs, aside from maybe IG with lots of Hydras.

But, yes, an eldar player would be stupid not to take a farseer with runes of warding. They should be in pretty much every single eldar list.