SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[chicop76]

I don't know why people think Tau Fire Warriors will drop to 8 pts or lower. If you compare to like ranged models I doubt it's going to happen.

8 pts for a normal eldar guardian. Tau have better range, weapon strength, and save and is a better model on a 1 to 1 basis so 8 pts would be too low.

10 pts for Guard Vets which is at the same cost with fire warriors with the same save. Major difference is Vet have better int, ws, bs, but they're stuck with a str 3 weapon, while the Tau have a str 5 weapon. 9 pts a pop might be slightly realistiic, but 10 pts seems to be on line with every one else

9 pts eldar warriors, they have pfp, a worst save, but can get fnp, similar stats to a guardsmen, but slightly better then a vet and their weapon is poisoned. On a 1 to 1 basis if 10 tau and 11 dark eldar warriors fired at each other no upgrades Tau would win every time. 1 can wound on 2s and ignore saves against better bs that wounds on 4 and the tau can save against it. It takes 6 dark eldar to kill one Tau vs two Tau killing on Dark Eldar. Not to mention Tau shoots 30" farther.

13 pts marine scouts with rapid fire bolters do just as well against non vehicle models like Tau at 13 pts.

12 pts dire avengers in regular shootingout performs Tau, but Tau have 12"s more range and perform the same in rapid fire range leaving a 6" gap for better dire avenger shooting.

11 pts for sisters of battle. At 11 pts they have a better save than all the above mentioned models. A fair comparision would be with guard vets, but for 1 pt more they get a better save, higher str weapon, +6 inulnerable save. Compaing to even 13 pt marine scouts the sisters are better. Comparing to true born, blood brides, and wycthes is difficult since all 3 are specailist and sisters are jack of all trades with a marine save. Looking at the last codex you have a few henchmen at 10 pts or a guard type char with a boltter and a +4 save at 9 pts. I doubt the sisters will drop in points. If anything they would raise the points on them.

Back to Tau the unit cost is not the problem, upgardes is the real problem, which every unit mentioned above have decent upgrades. Also Fire Warriors do poorly in combat with same priced models, except orcs.
Tau with a 4+ save and can hit on 4s can deal with some units, but throw in power weapons it's not a good thing. Marines walk through all of the above except old sisters so of course tau will suck in combat against a marine.

With sisters I can't imagine a drop from the 11 pt standard troop. Serepham will drop in cost for sure and maybe celestine too, but other then that I doubt at best under 10. 11 points is still very realistic. In the old sister codex you can easily see the sisters being the best troop in th game overall. Can't really say that now yet.

[sukigod]

OK - this is coming from a 17+ year vet of orks who has been waiting to start a Sisters army...

I've read through countless threads (everywhere) and yeah, not the greatest of news on the Sisters front, everyone is up in arms. Twp things I've noticed are people claiming the Seraphim lost Hit and Run (the copy I saw has this listed.

The other is the outrage about Faith Points. I know it doesn't seem to scale and seems really low vs larger armies but we haven't seen the wargear specifics. I'm so noob about Sisters I had to look up what a a Laud Hailer did for the game. I have a proposal that might change some peoples perspective. What if they changed the wargear, say making the Laud Hailer a 1d6 faith points per turn?

I have no basis for this idea, didn't read anything anyone else hasn't, just thought that this one thing might make a difference in the Faith Point system.

[andrewm9]

Overall Sisters will need to get cheaper than they are currently and here is why. In a vacuum Sisters appear to be well priced but if you add a special weapon and heavy weapon along with the Book and a vet at current points in a Rhino they are like 5 points cheaper than a similarly equipped marine tactical sqaud. In fact with both grenades they are more expensive.

Everybody quotes that point cost without realizing what else must be paid for in the current squad since Vets and therefro faith aren't free. If they get any sort of 5th edition treatment then they wil be lowered in cost somehow. Sure the basic trooper may work out be 11 points int he new codex but I imagine it will actually go up to 12 points per model. I'm also betting that we lose access to sqauds over 10 girls and they will be 5 to 10 models in a squad of battlesisters.

[chicop76]

OK - this is coming from a 17+ year vet of orks who has been waiting to start a Sisters army...

I've read through countless threads (everywhere) and yeah, not the greatest of news on the Sisters front, everyone is up in arms. Twp things I've noticed are people claiming the Seraphim lost Hit and Run (the copy I saw has this listed.

The other is the outrage about Faith Points. I know it doesn't seem to scale and seems really low vs larger armies but we haven't seen the wargear specifics. I'm so noob about Sisters I had to look up what a a Laud Hailer did for the game. I have a proposal that might change some peoples perspective. What if they changed the wargear, say making the Laud Hailer a 1d6 faith points per turn?

I have no basis for this idea, didn't read anything anyone else hasn't, just thought that this one thing might make a difference in the Faith Point system.

In a sence Serphim lost hit and run. It went from being auto matic to making an int test. That wouldn't had bugged me as much if they didn't drop then int to 3. Also in the old dex I could had made the int which would had still be ok. Now I'm stuck with a 50% chance to do so.

[andrewm9]

OK - this is coming from a 17+ year vet of orks who has been waiting to start a Sisters army...

I've read through countless threads (everywhere) and yeah, not the greatest of news on the Sisters front, everyone is up in arms. Twp things I've noticed are people claiming the Seraphim lost Hit and Run (the copy I saw has this listed.

They didn't lose it exactly but since hit and Run is now dependent on an Initative test they will only succeed on a 50/50 chance. They are the only unit in the game (that I know of) with Hit and Run in the game besides Dekk Koptas with an initiative less than 5.

[wittdooley]

So.... how would everyone feel if sisters had access to Null Maidens as an elite choice, similar to the Sanguianry Priest. You can take....1-5 per elite choice, and split them up into units. They'd grant a 6" shrouded bubble, making them immune to Psychic attacks/effects, and would grant a cover save even in open ground. They'd also be an IC...making your base sisters unit Act of Faith roll a 3+ if you include one, potentially a 2+ if you take a casualty.

Would that be fun? Would that make the army any better? It would be hella fluffy, would make your acts of faith easier to pull off, and would be a nice way to make a footslogging sisters company viable.

Further, since we haven't seen the equipment options: who's to say there isn't going to be an inexpensive relic that allows you to roll 2d6 for faith points per turn, and take the highest.

I understand how integral faith points are to the army, but the biggest complaint seems to be that we don't get enough of them AND they're not strong enough. Now, I think Mel mentioned that she'd be happy if they were more rare, but more powerful--I'm totally down with that idea. Would it be a happier compromise if the d6 roll stayed as the WD presentation, but allowed for more powerful Acts of Faith?

[Calypso2ts]

So.... how would everyone feel if sisters had access to Null Maidens as an elite choice, similar to the Sanguianry Priest. You can take....1-5 per elite choice, and split them up into units.

Nice a model that I cannot add to normal SoB units in Rhinos since they are base size 10 that enable a specific foot slogging only paradigm. This way I can be guaranteed to be assaulted by Terminators and then to lose my whole unit (or multiples) since Spirit of the Martyr is gone...I guess I do have that 6++ save that is completely worthless as an actual mechanic to protect a unit...so long as BoSL remains in its current form, at least I can choose to fail morale and try to shoot the Terminators, too bad there is no Divine Guidance...

They'd also be an IC...making your base sisters unit Act of Faith roll a 3+ if you include one, potentially a 2+ if you take a casualty.

Awesome I can use my new AoF that generally stink even more often to be almost on par in power to normal units!

Further, since we haven't seen the equipment options: who's to say there isn't going to be an inexpensive relic that allows you to roll 2d6 for faith points per turn, and take the highest.

This would be a great a piece of wargear that I have to include in every army to have my units be almost as good as everyone elses!

Would it be a happier compromise if the d6 roll stayed as the WD presentation, but allowed for more powerful Acts of Faith?

Probably not, let's do the math on that one. If I get 6 dice that is an 8% chance to fail...which is exactly the same as trying to Divine Guidance a 10 man squad or get a 2++ on my Canoness now. Are the acts going to be more powerful than that?

[wittdooley]

Your reply simply sounds like you want female marines with Acts of Faith....

[chicop76]

Overall Sisters will need to get cheaper than they are currently and here is why. In a vacuum Sisters appear to be well priced but if you add a special weapon and heavy weapon along with the Book and a vet at current points in a Rhino they are like 5 points cheaper than a similarly equipped marine tactical sqaud. In fact with both grenades they are more expensive.

Everybody quotes that point cost without realizing what else must be paid for in the current squad since Vets and therefro faith aren't free. If they get any sort of 5th edition treatment then they wil be lowered in cost somehow. Sure the basic trooper may work out be 11 points int he new codex but I imagine it will actually go up to 12 points per model. I'm also betting that we lose access to sqauds over 10 girls and they will be 5 to 10 models in a squad of battlesisters.

Obviously the rhino will drop between 35-40 pts although you can be Blood Angels, but they can get it for 15 pts if you take the right squad. Also I can see the veteran superior may or may not drop in price, but I doubt the 11 pt motif will change.

186 points for a vet upgade with heavy flame, book and melta gun plus rhino looks realistic. 10 dark eldar warriors in a raider hits 150 pts without up grades which would equal sisters at 145 pts without upgrades.

We can probably say good bye to the book due to the Cannoness will have stubborn.

[Maelstorm]

How about 18 points per model, minimum 10 models (180 points per squad, 2 required to meet minimum FOC), no heavy weapons, no close combat weapons, no sergeant, no upgrades, no transport, a 3+ Save, Initiative 2 and a basic bolter that shoots green and glances on a 6? Kind of makes them the walking dead that are auto-sweep in close combat... No wait, that would make them equivelent to the one and only scoring unit in a Necron army.

Take everything you read here with a HUGE grain of salt. Don't jump on the rumour wagon and wait for the real print - it just fans everyones blood pressure higher. I quit reading the Necron rumour forum here because it was having the same effect on me.

Just another month or three and the WD based codex will dribble out of GW. Only then can a proper uproar unsue in good faith - right up until the FAQ dribbles out 6 months later to correct the errors and confusion. Just in time for 6th Edition and 6 more colors/flavors of Space marines.