GW and 6th considering its competitors

[Levitas]

6th edition needs to be dramatic and give more scope like it used to in Rogue Trader. The squats must return and reclaim their place as the rulers of the galaxy...

40k just sells models, and thats what GW does well. Awesome plastics, easy to convert. The game is just a delivery system with a wonky sci fi story stapled to it. So until a company truly challenges GW in the model stakes the game wont really be that important to them. Would any self respecting true game company ship a codex like Grey Knights? probably not, but the models are pretty so who cares.

[Wolfshade]

I would have to disagree with Levitas, Rogue Trader was for skirmished based games and had less scope as the rules were cumbersome for any engagement above a couple of squads; do you remember trying to do a large multiple assault?!
To say that rouge trader had more scope than 5th edition does not make sense to me. We have rules that are quite efficient (though some may not agree with the abstractions) and able to handle games from 500pts to 15,000pts+, we now have additional rule sets for city fights, planetary invasion, armoured movements.

[The Plumber]

6th edition needs to be dramatic and give more scope like it used to in Rogue Trader. The squats must return and reclaim their place as the rulers of the galaxy...

40k just sells models, and thats what GW does well. Awesome plastics, easy to convert. The game is just a delivery system with a wonky sci fi story stapled to it. So until a company truly challenges GW in the model stakes the game wont really be that important to them. Would any self respecting true game company ship a codex like Grey Knights? probably not, but the models are pretty so who cares.

I also have to disagree with levitas here, concerning the 'wonky' sci-fi story. The only other sci-fi franchise that has close to as much well written fluff is star trek?

I do have to agree with him about the grey knights codex though, I think Ward ate too many blue smarties when he wrote that cow pat of a book......

[Charistoph]

Yeah, GW pretty much has a lock on the scale that 40K and Fantasy operate with now. With a couple of exceptions, everyone else is propagating skirmish games on the level of Mordheim and Necromunda, and those few who are clocking for GWs scale are mostly feeding models into their game systems, for now. The only other angle I see people taking a shot at GW with is Spartan Games hitting them through their Epic/Fleet games (and model-wise doing a good job).

I know there was a rumor a while back that PP was looking at doing a Sci-Fi game, but that was some time ago, and nothing since.

But until a company is ready and willing to dedicate themselves to more than skirmish games, I doubt that GW is in real danger.

[mysterex]

Warmachine's an interesting intellectual property, but lacks... something. I'm not sure what. But there's just something not quite as awesome about it as 40K, at least for me.

I've never played Warmachine but it's all but replaced 40K locally for sci-fi gaming. I turned up to our local gaming club last weekend and had the first 40k game held there so far this year. Three or four years ago 70 to 80% of the games going on were 40k.

At the moment the top games locally seem to be Flames of War, Warhammer Fantasy and Warmachine in that order. A few years ago none of them had much of an impact.

[mikethefish]

Like Mantic? :rolleyes

To be honest, providing affordable plastic miniatures IS a fresh idea.

[Harmonious Borealis]

But that brings me to another point... The Seattle region is mess. It's not the kind of region where you can accurately judge how saturated a market is based upon the number of stores within specified distances. As far as topography goes, this is not an ideal location for an urban area half it's current size. You have large hills separating and compacting the urban sprawl, combined with the web that is the Puget Sound further adding barriers and dividing up the region. Roughly speaking, the population sprawl is around 70+ miles long and roughly 20± miles wide. And all of it rides on the central economic hub that is Seattle, with Tacoma, Redmond, and Bellevue being the secondary hubs. The difference between having 3 niche hobby stores within a 10mile radius, and having 7, is negligible (aside from overhead costs). The population here isn't afraid of driving upwards of 20 to 30mins just to go to a game store. Hell most of them spend 2hrs± a day commuting to and from work. And it's only been in recent years that the mass-transit system has improved at all (and even that's questionable).

3 GW stores across this area, 10 years ago, does not seem like much at all. But these 3 stores were situated in Bellevue, Alderwood, and Auburn. The bunker being the central-most store, was 20 to 25 miles from the other two. Beyond that you had a smattering of independent retailers across the whole region. Each store was catering not only to it's general vicinity, but also to every other city around it. Wizards of the Coast, the creators of Magic:The Gathering, also began in this area and filled every shopping mall with a WoTC store. Each store carried GW products as well, until Hasbro bought them out and closed all the WoTC storefronts. So while there were only 3 actual GW-name stores, there were uncountable independents carrying the product. GW was well known throughout this area.

Ever skipped a bit north to the Greater Vancouver area, in BC, Canada? You managed to describe it perfectly, sans the WotC-specific references. I wasn't in the industry then, so I wouldn't know about that.

In the last 5 years, we've gone from 4 GW stores, down to 1, back up to 2. But us independents have remained stable. In fact, the independents gain business when GW stores close, AND GW doesn't have to pay our rent

That being said, once we got Warmachine in, I've been selling more of that to new players. Why? The skirmish format seems to be more accessible to brand-new gamers, and the price point more attractive. As for what playing has been going on? Easier to haul around a skirmish number of models than an army if you haven't arranged a game ahead of time. And today, many people don't arrange stuff ahead of time.

I think, whatever the rules changes, there needs to be some kind of beginner box with simplified rules, possibly at a lower price point. I don't think the game should go skirmish; Warhammer is an army game. I think that it needs to be more accessible. The 2-player box format is a hindrance for a single new player trying to join an established playerbase, and throwing the full rules at two lone beginning players with no experienced player to help them through can be a frustrating way to learn, especially for generation ADD (no offence is intended to those who suffer from ADHD).


This isn't the easy way to go. I do think that it fits with their goals of selling product and encouraging future purchases. More opponents generally benefit the players too.

[L192837465]

I think, whatever the rules changes, there needs to be some kind of beginner box with simplified rules, possibly at a lower price point. I don't think the game should go skirmish; Warhammer is an army game. I think that it needs to be more accessible. The 2-player box format is a hindrance for a single new player trying to join an established playerbase, and throwing the full rules at two lone beginning players with no experienced player to help them through can be a frustrating way to learn, especially for generation ADD (no offence is intended to those who suffer from ADHD).

More to the point, the starter boxes should each contain a mini rulebook and all be equivalent points for the same cost and be legal playable armies straight out.

[Goochman]

Well I've seen the game evolve since back in 87. I have played all the eds., I got I guess one hell of OOP figures, books, novels, etc....I even was a red shirt.
All I have to say is that I'm very exited to see what the new ed is going to bring.
The only mistake I have to say to GW is the change of a lot of models to Finecast, I think is a waste of time and product.
Besides that, I really hope evolves to a more Apocalyptic view and like always stay King of the Hill.

[el_pablo65]

They really need to start pushing out some novels, and I think that could be a really nice springboard to growing the IP.

This is what I think the competition needs to concentrate on. If we don't care about the story and the characters/races then we will not invest heavily in the game. And I mean emotional investment as much as financial.