If I Wrote the Codex

[Aldramelech]

Really? I mean did they really disappear? That's a new one. Germans still relied on horses - when they could get them, as they did not have enough fuel for their tanks and aircraft (and trucks were far behind those in supply priorities). Soviets relied on horses for transport as they could not get enough trucks, and cavalry forces were still quite useful - as they could keep up with tanks (and, unlike tank-riding infantry were still able to fight after traveling long distances). Only Americans and Brits could have 100% mechanized transport - but they fought in Western Europe, with its short distances and good road network.

No they didn't, studies after the war by the American Army showed that the horse stock available to the German forces was so depleted by mid 1943 that they were unable to replace their losses from that point in the war. One of the reasons Germany worked so hard to get Turkey to join the axis was to try and fix this. To suggest that Soviet supply lines relied on horses is laughable, Rail networks providing this essential service. Strategic Supply has always been about Railways. Besides which I am talking about horses being used in the tactical environment.


Vehicles are expensive, require constant care, mechanics, fuel (which unlike horse feed is usually a rare commodity), make easy targets and are easy to kill (on any kind of modern battlefield "you see it - it is dead"). What's more - mechanized transport requires good roads, horses can go pretty much anywhere.

Wrong again. Vehicles, mass produced, are very cheap, and fuel is not a rare commodity. The Germans fuel shortages were more about an inability to move fuel rather then a lack of it. A well maintained vehicle requires little care, mechanics are plentiful and easy to train, unlike Vets, and you just cant feed a military horse on anything growing in a field, they require a very specific diet. Vehicles also dont get tired. Mechanized transport today certainly does not require good roads.

Why? Because they reappear every now and then. US Special Forces in Afghanistan fought and traveled on horseback in the early stages of the conflict. Mujadeen insurgents fought on horseback against Soviets - and they were doing quite well...

And again wrong! They did not fight on horseback, they used horses as transport to get to the fight.
Which if you'd read the thread properly is what I advocated as a more realistic use of 'rough riders' in the first place. Horses in Afghanistan enable the Special Forces to move around more discreetly and blend in. Did they use them in Iraq? No, because they didn't have to and why use them unless you have to?

The Mujadeen used them because they didn't have anything else.

[Pietia]

And again wrong! They did not fight on horseback, they used horses as transport to get to the fight.

If you read a few reports from Afghanistan, you'd be surprised . Horses were used not only as transport... They did not charge into close combat, but these fights did not belong into the "get nearby on horseback and then fight dismounted" category.
The fact, that a horseman is a slightly bigger target than a human on foot (and can't really use cover) is often offset by the fact, that he moves much faster (and makes the target of the charge a bit nervous - fighting men are not machines, you know). There were examples of successful cavalry charges in the Great War and World War 2... even against enemies in prepared positions.

The Mujadeen used them because they didn't have anything else.

A lot of folks in 40k also don't have anything else. You have medieval worlds sending troops to fight - they get a bit more advanced weapons, but fight in the fashion they are used to.

[DarkLink]

Special forces do sometimes use horses and mules in the mountains of afganistan, but mainly to carry supplies. Each of our soldiers and marines are burdened with 50+ pounds of body armor, weapons, ammo and other combat gear. That doesn't count field rations, water and other essenssials. Taking that load and putting on a mule lets our troops hike much, much quicker, which is a huge benifit as one problem we've encountered is that the enemy only has a rifle and some ammo to carry, and can literally run circles around our patrols.

[Aldramelech]

[QUOTE=Pietia;19178]If you read a few reports from Afghanistan, you'd be surprised . Horses were used not only as transport... They did not charge into close combat, but these fights did not belong into the "get nearby on horseback and then fight dismounted" category.
The fact, that a horseman is a slightly bigger target than a human on foot (and can't really use cover) is often offset by the fact, that he moves much faster (and makes the target of the charge a bit nervous - fighting men are not machines, you know). There were examples of successful cavalry charges in the Great War and World War 2... even against enemies in prepared positions.

Name one (WW2)

[Dragonmann]

Emperor's Teeth! Does it matter?

Rough Riders are part of the canon. The point was to make them a viable unit, not a waste of ink.


---

Unit 2:
Space Marine Predator

The predator got smacked with two major hits in this edition. One, the loss of defensive status for heavy bolters, and Two, being covered in vanilla from tip to tail.


The predator is suppose to be a fearsome tank, the space marine Main Battle Tank, although more of a Cavalry Tank and not comparable to the likes of a Russ, or other Battle Tank.


Anyway,

Same stats, new special rules:

Weapons:

Destructor Autocannon - Unlike imperial guard autocannons, the space marine destructor uses self propelled rounds similar to Heavy Bolter rounds, but able to carry much larger explosive charges.

R60 S7 AP4 Heavy3

Annihilator Lascannon - The enhanced power system, and superior cooling units allow the Annihllator Lascannon to maintain fire longer, enabling it to cut deeper into enemy armor than standard lascannons.

R48 S9 Ap1 Heavy1, Twin Linked


Special Rules:
Airborne Deployment: The predator may be deployed by deep strike when the scenario allows

Cavalry tank: The predator determines weapons that can be fired as a fast vehicle, but moves as a standard vehicle

[Aldramelech]

He started it!

[Pietia]

Name one (WW2)

A few examples:
January 16th, 1942, Bataan, US 26th Cavalry Regiment (Philippine Scouts) - 27 men led by Lt Ed Ramsey, charged Japanese-held village of Morong (and succeeded). Lt Ramsey received Silver Star for this
August 24th, 1942, eastern front, River Don area near Chebotarevsky , Italian 3rd Dragoons Savoia Cavalleggeri - entire regiment led by Colonel Bettoni - lost 40 men, killed 150, captured over 900 - pretty much wiped out a fully kitted-out Siberian Rifles regiment
September 19th, 1939, Wolka Weglowa (near Warsaw), 14th Jazlowiec Uhlan Regiment charged through German lines, allowing Polish forces to break out of encirclement (plus 15 other successful cavalry charges of this campaign - details here: [url]http://www.kawaleria.marcin-lewandowski.xip.pl/szarze.php[/url], if you can read Polish)
March 1st, 1945, Western Pomeria, 1st Warsaw Cavalry Brigade - two squadrons charged German lines (and the Pomeranian Line was really well defended) and broke through, allowing other units to exploit the breakthrough

[Aldramelech]

Gods sake, see above! The man wants his thread back...................

[Pietia]

Gods sake, see above! The man wants his thread back...................

Well, you wanted an answer - you got one...

As for the Predator - I like the Cavalry tank rule. I am not sure, however, about the airborne deployment. In Epic you deploy Predators using the huge Lander dropships - but they... well... land, and only then they're deployed. Definitely not dropped. What's more - if the Predators were airdropped, Rhinos and Razorbacks should be too...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I'd rewrite the entire space marine codex and take everything the current one has as character-granted abilities, plus everything the old one had for traits, and turn them all into "Legacies" and make people pay points for them. Special Characters give Legacies for free.