2nd and 11th legions??? what happened???

[Sonikgav]

Yeah to be fair the old Background was happy to admit the Warhammer World was a planet in the 40k universe however when 40k took off as well as it did they decided to seperate them into their own universes to avoid just such story complications.

Sigmar has become the Fantasy representation of the Emperor rather than a Primarch though it was hinted as you said. Who the other one was has always been debated though.

AS they seperated that idea was thrown out, though always hung around and the extra chapters were said to be placeholders for your own created chapters, to encourage people to get creative and imaginitive with back stories for their forces. There's 2 of these to allow 1 loyalist and 1 chaos.

[Wildeybeast]

Maybe you guys have been playing fantasy longer than me, but I've been playing Empire for about 20 years and the fluff on Sigmar has not changed at all in that time, merely expanded. And I'm not aware of any old background which mentions the Warhammer world being in the 40K one, perhaps you could quote and source this.

[Sonikgav]

It was more on the 40k side of the fluff than Warhammer. They didnt want Machine Guns and Power Armor getting into fantasy and it was mostly the very early Rogue Trader stuff that hinted towards it all.

Its the reason they got rid of the Squats etc, to deliberately distance the two games so it wasnt a simple case of 'Space Elves', 'Space Dwarves', 'Space Orks' etc.

I may have exaggerated in that it wasnt ever 'admitted' but it was heavily hinted at. Even Sigmars emblem, the two tailed comet was suspected of not being a herald of his coming, but actually how he arrived on the 'Warhammer World' that it was some sort of crashing pod/ship.

As of now, youre right, dont worry theyve done the work of affirming Sigmars background so that it removes any of those old suspicions but they were definitely there in the beginning.

[Kataklysm]

It was more on the 40k side of the fluff than Warhammer. They didnt want Machine Guns and Power Armor getting into fantasy and it was mostly the very early Rogue Trader stuff that hinted towards it all.

Its the reason they got rid of the Squats etc, to deliberately distance the two games so it wasnt a simple case of 'Space Elves', 'Space Dwarves', 'Space Orks' etc.

I may have exaggerated in that it wasnt ever 'admitted' but it was heavily hinted at. Even Sigmars emblem, the two tailed comet was suspected of not being a herald of his coming, but actually how he arrived on the 'Warhammer World' that it was some sort of crashing pod/ship.

As of now, youre right, dont worry theyve done the work of affirming Sigmars background so that it removes any of those old suspicions but they were definitely there in the beginning.

Yeah it was about rogue trader era when this was really popular. Im glad someone else remember this, and those poor abused squats.

side note: anyone want to buy some old squat attack bikes?

[Wildeybeast]

It was more on the 40k side of the fluff than Warhammer. They didnt want Machine Guns and Power Armor getting into fantasy and it was mostly the very early Rogue Trader stuff that hinted towards it all.

Its the reason they got rid of the Squats etc, to deliberately distance the two games so it wasnt a simple case of 'Space Elves', 'Space Dwarves', 'Space Orks' etc.

I may have exaggerated in that it wasnt ever 'admitted' but it was heavily hinted at. Even Sigmars emblem, the two tailed comet was suspected of not being a herald of his coming, but actually how he arrived on the 'Warhammer World' that it was some sort of crashing pod/ship.

As of now, youre right, dont worry theyve done the work of affirming Sigmars background so that it removes any of those old suspicions but they were definitely there in the beginning.

I see, thanks for clarifying, I didn't pick up 40K until 3rd ed. With Fantasy being already established, I can see why they would hint at it, but I'm glad they have removed all trace from both universes.

[mjasghar]

Bit more complicated.
Squats - nobody could be arsed to think something up for them, and nobody wanted to buy lots of expensive, fiddly and heavy bike models. The fact the designer gave them a dodgy primary colour scheme added to it. Having said that look at the first steam tank models. But, no one vould think of a wat to make them grimdark, and i think they felt that having techpriests cyborg types was more that way.
As for totally divorcing wfb from 40k, well 40k doesn't refer to it (well maybe some hints i've forgotten, mainlhy on lizard llike descendants of old ones) but wfb has really pushed them. Mainly as Lizardmen are such a big part of the mythos now, we have lots of refrences to old ones and their plan.
Indeed, the warhammer world is said to be a crucial part of their cosmoc plan. Refs to orcs being brought by spores. Even sometimes using the term Ork gods not Orc. There does seem to be a disasociation with the Fall causing the gate to collapse.
In the AoL novel Godking, Sigmar is shown there are other worlds by Nagash.

[Kataklysm]

Bit more complicated.
Squats - nobody could be arsed to think something up for them, and nobody wanted to buy lots of expensive, fiddly and heavy bike models. The fact the designer gave them a dodgy primary colour scheme added to it. Having said that look at the first steam tank models. But, no one vould think of a wat to make them grimdark, and i think they felt that having techpriests cyborg types was more that way.
As for totally divorcing wfb from 40k, well 40k doesn't refer to it (well maybe some hints i've forgotten, mainlhy on lizard llike descendants of old ones) but wfb has really pushed them. Mainly as Lizardmen are such a big part of the mythos now, we have lots of refrences to old ones and their plan.
Indeed, the warhammer world is said to be a crucial part of their cosmoc plan. Refs to orcs being brought by spores. Even sometimes using the term Ork gods not Orc. There does seem to be a disasociation with the Fall causing the gate to collapse.
In the AoL novel Godking, Sigmar is shown there are other worlds by Nagash.

Oh snap the rumor still lives!!!

[Wildeybeast]

Bit more complicated.
Squats - nobody could be arsed to think something up for them, and nobody wanted to buy lots of expensive, fiddly and heavy bike models. The fact the designer gave them a dodgy primary colour scheme added to it. Having said that look at the first steam tank models. But, no one vould think of a wat to make them grimdark, and i think they felt that having techpriests cyborg types was more that way.
As for totally divorcing wfb from 40k, well 40k doesn't refer to it (well maybe some hints i've forgotten, mainlhy on lizard llike descendants of old ones) but wfb has really pushed them. Mainly as Lizardmen are such a big part of the mythos now, we have lots of refrences to old ones and their plan.
Indeed, the warhammer world is said to be a crucial part of their cosmoc plan. Refs to orcs being brought by spores. Even sometimes using the term Ork gods not Orc. There does seem to be a disasociation with the Fall causing the gate to collapse.
In the AoL novel Godking, Sigmar is shown there are other worlds by Nagash.

All good points, but not a single one suggests that it is the 40K universe, merely that GW wants consistency with the origins of greenskins/is too lazy to come up with different ideas. After all Necrons are TK in space, DE are DE in space etc. As a counter point, we have magic. No world in the 40K universe has magic. You can make plenty of points for, but ultimately there is no clear evidence that they are in the same universe. They could be in different universes, but things like Orcs and Old Ones cross the dimensions.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

All good points, but not a single one suggests that it is the 40K universe, merely that GW wants consistency with the origins of greenskins/is too lazy to come up with different ideas. After all Necrons are TK in space, DE are DE in space etc. As a counter point, we have magic. No world in the 40K universe has magic. You can make plenty of points for, but ultimately there is no clear evidence that they are in the same universe. They could be in different universes, but things like Orcs and Old Ones cross the dimensions.

Also the Daemon Special Characters are exactly the same with no deviation.

Couldn't you suggest that magic is just a medieval view of the Psychic energies of the warp? I mean, you could argue either way, but psychic energy is most likely refferred to as magic on the now black powder stage worlds (for lack of better description)... But yeah, just being devils advocate .

[Jmaximum]

I can unfortunately dispell this theory. The grey knight were originally formed from survivor marines from a few of the traitor legions after istavaan that didnt turn traitor with the rest. so that debunks that.

Yeah this was revealed in one of the Audiobooks (the name escapes me right now).



*spoiler alert********************************************* ********************************




















The reveal that Loken survived the virus bombing of Istvaan was pretty cool! And that he gets taken in to help form the Inquisition.