Chaos Space Marines:

[darth_papi76]

I can totally understand how dedicated Chaos players feel. They had really themed book and they lost it. I myself miss my Black Guardians. What I see as the biggest slap in the face to Chaos players is what happened with the Demons. I think that was a quick cash grab by GW. They doubled-dipped by putting out two armies using the exact same minis at the same time. When things like that happen, I don't what the fellas in the design studio can do about it? Hopefully the next book will bring back the Chaos flavor.

[Chaos]

Chaos space marines will never go extinct but i do notice that im the only player in my town with chaos space marines and I dont understand why nobody else is.

[Lord Alchemy]

I can definitely understand why this was done to Chaos in the first place. The new codex, while very competitive, has no flavor, most power builds as stated numerous times are pretty much the same for Chaos. In my area, we have pretty much 3 dedicated chaos players though there are lot of new comers as well so the new codex didnt really hamper that. I actually dont think the new codex is that bad. The last Chaos codex was definitely broke, but geez was it full of character. I played Nightlords mainly and though I can pretty much play the same list now, I cant have my "veteran" Raptors anymore. After looking at the new Space Wolves Codex which to be honest is incredible and many a power gamers wet dream; iI am hoping GW will be doing to all armies' codexes from this point on. Cool characters, lots of options, that is what I would like, not blandness or simplified codexes.

[Vash113]

I still notice quite a few Chaos players around, but I've seen very few themed armies. Most of the chaos players I see are using the Codex for the double lash and things like that. Most of the dedicated Chaos Marine players I knew before have moved onto something else. Few have actually gotten rid of their models but most don't use them much if at all anymore and that's sad.

I deffinitely think the new Chaos Codex has a lot less flavor and the focus on Renegades while interresting is just stupid in my opinion. It's the Codex: Chaos Space Marines not Codex: Renegades and while you could say "but renegades are chaos marines too!" they really aren't at least not in the same sense. There's a BIG difference between the ancient Legions still fighting the Long War and the newly or recently turned Renegades. They have vastly different organisations, numbers and equipment. After all it doesn't really make sense to see Red Corsairs running around with Reaper Autocannons and the Crusade era Bolt Pistols, Bolter and Chainsword weapons combos not to mention all the other outdated gear.

Most people I see playing a renegade Chapter use one of the loyalist codexies to do it. Like I know a guy who plays a Fallen Dark Angels army and uses... the Dark Angel Codex.

Anyway the loss of Cult Terminators, different kinds of Summoned Daemons, and Legion unique troops and units like the Bassalisk and Cultists, and the loss of Veteran skills really hurt the army, smacked a lot of Veteran players in the face and saw a lot switch armies.

[DuskRaider]

It seems that most of the people saying "suck it up" are the same ones who own other armies who aren't Chaos. I myself have 4 armies, all of which are Chaos related. Death Guard, World Eaters, Renegade Militia, and Daemons. I refuse to play my Renegades using the new IG codex, I bought them for the IA books and I intend to use them (unfortunately people are either allergic to anything completely GW or are jealous because they can't afford FW pieces). Daemons are really fun, and IMO the best example I can find for a codex that's both streamlined and filled with options AND fluff. Too bad it came too late.

[Aceshigh]

People still play Chaos locally, but it's always the same soulless powerbuild that's the only thing Chaos has going for it.

Terrible Codex, it's a real shame what he did to Chaos.

thankyou i completely agree with this statement

[RocketRollRebel]

I think that the old Chaos codex was just too crazy and left way too much room for abuse and needed to be changed.

I dont think the new Codex is god aweful but I do agree that it could certainly use some work (ie:demon princes being so generic). It just suffers from being kinda a first generation codex (ie:more streamlined and simpler) just like how codex: Dark Angels suffers from the same problem.(and they got it much worse!)

Its still a decent and competitive codex IMO. Their troops choices are pretty great (excluding T-Sons lol) and I don't believe that you need to go with a mech PM army to win games with them. I just think the codex could use a bit more flavor in the future.

[boo_barr]

thankyou i completely agree with this statement

Are you kidding me? I don't know what circumstances have led you guys to believe that the current CSM codex is only capable of one or two "soulless power builds", but I assure you that any quality 40k player can find 101 awesome lists in that codex. You can build a list around almost every single troops choice, elite choice, fast attack choice, heavy choice, or HQ choice in that codex. Maybe you liked the previous version better, but you absolutely can't be familiar with the current codex if you think you're limited in your options for a "competitive" list.

[Lanparth]

Are you kidding me? I don't know what circumstances have led you guys to believe that the current CSM codex is only capable of one or two "soulless power builds", but I assure you that any quality 40k player can find 101 awesome lists in that codex. You can build a list around almost every single troops choice, elite choice, fast attack choice, heavy choice, or HQ choice in that codex. Maybe you liked the previous version better, but you absolutely can't be familiar with the current codex if you think you're limited in your options for a "competitive" list.

I played a Chaos Space Marine boots army when I abused myself and used this book. 6 squads of 10 man Chaos Space Marines outfitted with Champion and twin plasma guns, the rest of the army was up for grabs depending on how I felt. Typically at 2000 points I could get close to 90-100 marines depending on what I fielded.

But you know what? at the end of the day I didn't actually enjoy playing it. Even when I shifted my list around, moving in 3 squads of Chosen. Shifting lords. Changing my fast attack or HS (I've got 6,000 points of Word Bearers >.>)

And it still just. Meh. Meh is all I can do to describe how I feel. Sure, I won. Literally lost only about 3 games in 18 months. But victory always felt hollow, boring, and even predictable. And I didn't particularly abuse anything, and my armie's only marks are Undivided.

And its still a boring book, despite being themed. The previous codex had much more flavor for every unit really in my army.

Now, with my Orks and Space Marines, each battle is exciting, and not just because they are new, no good sir no! Its cuz Orks are so flavored with their rules and upgrades. Or how my marines, despite being a LESS competitve codex than Chaos, have the same as the Orks, more weapons, more upgrades, more fluff, more feel.

I've played GW for 15 years, and I played Chaos since the Chapter Approved Article for the Word Bearers appeared. Thats quite a while. I suffered 3.0, but I had the Chapter Approved to add my flavor. Then came 3.5, which while I acknowledge was broken, had the right spirit of things. I got 4.0 after a small hiatus, excited as I was when I bought it. When I did a full read through, I was thoroughly disgusted.

And no matter how many times I tried to stomach that list ,and that ****ty book, its never gotten better. I'll be waiting for 5.0, or Legions, before I touch the foul powers of the Word Bearers again. Which saddens me in one way, but by the end of my run with Chaos, I found actually playing the army to be stressful, just thinking about how bland the list always felt, and how poorly represented my force was in terms of wargear and "marks". (The standards per squad is stupid)

[Grimgore]

I feel cheated in a way... for me the Word Bearers are the legion. Lots of demon fodder and messed up
demon engines of death. With the current rules for Greater,Lesser Demons and Dreadnaughts... not to mention
losing the Accursed Acrozius or Demagogue rules... sure the look is there but the feel is not. I'm not fielding
Demonettes, Bloodletters, Plauge Bearers, or even Nurglings. I'm not fielding Dreads with a reliable chance to
not kick my own behind. I can't field a Lord with an Accursed Acrozius and Demagogue ability.

All those rules that made the Word Bearers the Word Bearers are gone. In its place I have to deal with a paint
scheme for my army that makes it the Word Bearers... if I remember right they are not even shown in the 4.0 'dex.

I can understand wanting to streamline the book, the old book was a bit out of hand, but to be honest I didn't care if
it took a whole day just to craft the list... I loved the book. Did it need toned down? Yes. Should have been toned
down to such an extent? No. I can understand that GW wanted to take a different approach to codex building, Chaos
Dark Angels, & Blood Angels got the short end of the stick here. I think GW has seen enough "I HATE the current
(insert codex of choice) codex!!" threads that this is why we are seeing the another design shift to the books.
More options and new units to make the books exciting and new again.

Will I play another army? Probably not. I have invested too much time and money already to start over. Will I wait for
next Codex? Most definitely! Gav, may he move on to better things for him, won't be writing it... so at least I have some
small comfort there.

Grim

*edited for odd layout