GW IPhammer reaches China?

[eldargal]

Christ, you're just insane.

I mean, damn those Western goverments, forcing companies to pay wages that actually let their workers live and providing standards which keep them safe. What the hell is wrong with them.




You're right, and I'm done, this is getting ridiculous.

Eldargal,

Have you ever argued with a child? If not...now you have. No matter what you say. No matter what logic you bring to the table. It doesn't matter. It will change nothing. They feel they have been wronged. Reality doesn't figure into the equation.

You can point out how their own import infrastructure is to blame. You can point out the very basic creation rationale behind IP. You can listen respectfully to the self serving tantrums that they try to pass off as rational arguments. When you see individuals with fully functioning brains argue the amorality of corporations while accusing GW of immorality then there is only one conclusion.

All for naught.

As sad as it is...buying counterfeit plastic/resin from criminals in China is their way of masking over their feelings of powerlessness over having their toys taken away from them by circumstances beyond their control. They would rather piss in the sand box than play nice.

[daboarder]

yeah I had a feeling it was only a matter of time before someone pointed out that some countries have some really screwed up laws. look keep things in perspective people, the laws we are now discussing do not compare in even the remotest sense to crimes against humanity. As for the war in iraq and afghanistan, ill put that this way. Whatever thoughts you have regarding the invasions remember that at the end of the day the average citizen is FAR better off now than they were before.

eldargirl,

I'm merely pointing out that your argument is objective, someone from china is going to believe just as strongly as you that they are right and you are wrong on this issue. That does not make them a theif, that does not mean they deserve to be punished, that is merely how they are.

AnEnemy,

Before you open your pie hole this chemical scientist would like to direct you to read the above thread. You'll note that it was ME that addressed our import laws as partially responsible for the inflated cost in my country. You'll also note that I've only ever argued that it is not for OTHERS to judge people based on laws and morality they are not beholden to. And finally you'll note that I've expressed my distrust of this and other Chinese companies about the quality of the "product" they supply. With all that in mind I'd like you to get off your high horse grow the hell up and go try to troll elsewhere.

[AnEnemy]

And then the US decided that it is good to start a war on an ex ally , to control their oil .

Iraq controls their own oil interests. They have, however, contracted out the development and maintenance of those oil fields to Royal Dutch Shell and Petronas(Malaysian co.).

We invaded Iraq because of it's strategic location and it's relative secularism. Then we attempted a social engineering experiment by forcing democracy on a Middle Eastern nation. Some say that this was the precursor to the Arab Spring movement, but...some say a lot of things that aren't necessarily true.

So, yeah...toy soldiers.

[Chuck777]

If buying knock off models from China is immoral, then so too is buying Mantic models or other proxies for use in GW games. By not buying GW models, you are putting GW out of business. Those companies are "stealing" customers away with cheaper models that differ very little in theme or function from their source material. Buying Mantic models means you are hurting GW, which means people WILL loose their jobs. Just because Mantic puts a bit of effort into redesigning the wheel does not make them any less guilty of the same crime as the Chinese knock off artists. Now granted the Chinese are more guilty than Mantic in this regard but that does not absolve Mantic (or other companies who create proxy models for use in GW games).

Also note, if the Chinese Knockoff companies are indeed stating that their products (such as they are) are indeed copies, then that does not fit into the truest definition of Counterfeiting (which seeks to deceive the consumer as to the product's seedy origins). They are knock offs, for sure, but not counterfeits by the strictest definitions.

Once again, I am going to state that this is not an issue of immorality. Morality is relative to a given culture. Look at genital mutilation. In America, when performed on a baby boy it is seen as a perfectly acceptable surgery. When performed on a girl, such acts are deemed disgusting and unwarranted. However, in middle eastern societies, Female genital mutilation is widely regarded as the norm. Which culture is right? If female genital mutilation a positive or a negative, is it right or wrong? From one culture it is normal, to the other it is anathema.

Counterfeiting and making knockoffs is no different. The western world developed the fastest and cemented its place at the apex of global society. The west made the rules and attempts to impose them on all other countries. In South Africa hordes of people suffer from the debilitating effects of AIDS. Western pharmaceutical companies have created many different drugs that have proven quite effective at combating AIDS. When shipped overseas, those companies charge exorbitant sums of money for very small quantities of the drugs. Most South Africans struggle to eat three meals a day, there is no way they can afford the medications. An entire industry has popped up in South Africa that manufactures the medications, which gives hordes of people in South Africa the ability to actually live their lives. Are the South Africans immoral for making knock off drugs?

Obviously Toy Soldiers and AIDS meds are not in the same league but I believe it is a useful analogy to showcase that, off times, what we here in the developed world and what those in the developing world believe are often radically different and at odds.

Counterfeiting hurts the company that created the original product but the counterfeiters would not have a large market if the original goods were priced reasonably. The vast majority of people do not even entertain the idea of buying knock offs when the name brand is reasonably priced (which means the company is making a modest profit).

To you, buying knock off models is immoral. To me, it is simply a fact of life - one that I will never partake of and attempt to sway my friends away from. To me Knock offs are in the same category of "bad for the longevity of the game" as buying other companies models to be used in GW games and purchasing models internet retailers over local brick and mortar stores. If you want to play the game for the foreseeable future and have a place to play, then you buy GW products from your FLGS, period end of story. If you want to save a buck and risk the downfall of the hobby in the long term, then by all means purchase Chinese Knockoffs, Mantic models and do it all from the comfort of home on your computer.

[gridespider]

Remember the great file purge of 09 at boardgames geek?.. I JUST ORDERED, 10 MARK- 2 ,CLOSE ASSAULT SPACE MARINES FROM CHINA FOR 60 US DOLLARS!!! SO YOU CAN BITE MY SHINY METAL ........:

[AnEnemy]

AnEnemy,

Before you open your pie hole this chemical scientist would like to direct you to read the above thread. You'll note that it was ME that addressed our import laws as partially responsible for the inflated cost in my country. You'll also note that I've only ever argued that it is not for OTHERS to judge people based on laws and morality they are not beholden to. And finally you'll note that I've expressed my distrust of this and other Chinese companies about the quality of the "product" they supply. With all that in mind I'd like you to get off your high horse grow the hell up and go try to troll elsewhere.

When I'm referring to you I will use your name or quote directly. When I'm referring to a group of individuals I use general terms. The stances I mentioned are prevailing themes within the pro counterfeit posts contained in this thread. Believe it or not...I'm not here to make you feel bad.

That chip on your shoulder looks really heavy dude.

[daboarder]

When I'm referring to you I will use your name or quote directly. When I'm referring to a group of individuals I use general terms. The stances I mentioned are prevailing themes within the pro counterfeit posts contained in this thread. Believe it or not...I'm not here to make you feel bad.

That chip on your shoulder looks really heavy dude.

My apologies then, I miss understood and made and *** of myself.

[Kataklysm]

This kinda sums all this up.

[Psychosplodge]

Find me a single government - Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, or Lunar - that doesn't do this, and I'll eat my hat.

UK- look up the award of tube contracts to siemans in germany over a derby based company

Health Care is best n the world

Funniest statement on the internet.
Or do you mean as long as you haven't any major health issues that stop you getting "insurance"?

I mean, damn those Western goverments, forcing companies to pay wages that actually let their workers live and providing standards which keep them safe. What the hell is wrong with them.

Have you tried living on our minimum wage?
or even twice our minimum wage?

[DrLove42]

Yeah I will point out that Cuba has the best health care sytem in the world....

And as a side point. This week china launched 2 satellites. One is a communicatins satellite, encrypted to government transmissions only (several million of their peoples money so their governments cell phones get better reception)

The 2nd is their 5th DoS satellite. For those of you who don't know DoS stands for Denial of Space. It serves no function at all, but to just be there. It blocks over nations satellites and forces expensive rerouting. Additionally the core of the satellite is packed with hundred of steel balls and high explosives. If the chinese governemt so decide they can be detonated, effectivly "denying" a huge area of space to any other space vehicle. If all 5 sateliites blew there would be very little space left up there for anything (space debris is insanely dangerous - one of the space shuttles had a collosion with a fleck of paint, no bigger than a half a fingernail, and that imbedded itself 2 inches into the windscreen of the shuttle)

The chinese government sees abnsolutly nothing wrong with the "if i can't have it, neither can you" mentality. So stop trying to defend them