GW IPhammer reaches China?

[Wildeybeast]

1. Great you've never bought a bootleg. Does that mean that you've never EVER done ANYTHING in your life that was morally 'questionable'? Who is anyone to talk about moral high ground when there's sure to be at least one thing where they've been morally questionable in their lives?

It's like a mass murderer making fun of a bank robber for being a thief. So again don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, the internet is full of people that suddenly become 'holier than thou' at the first opportunity when knowing full well that they are far removed from it.

2. It is insulting to rape victims and their close friends/loved ones when you make that comparison. Nothing you've said so far was as insulting as that analogy. And furthermore now you want to seemingly try to convince me that buying a bootleg is an entry point for further criminal action.

I can only assume that if you were king of the world, stealing a peanut would earn someone that death penalty on account that they are sure to be engaging in heavy criminal activity in the future. Makes me wonder how long the king himself would be able to keep his head afloat THAT boat.

3. I'm delusional? Yet you feigned ignorance on the matter as if it is the owners of the company that actually do the 'work'. Do you think the CEO at GW isn't criminal in his practices? Having a monopoly IS a crime you know, and GW is not far from it in this market. For a company to make it to the top of the food chain like that they more likely than not have bend or flat out broken a few rules. Look at microsoft do you think they became so successful just on merit of hard work alone?

Come on man open your eyes to the reality of the matter, business is usually dirty by nature. The point is that WE get to choose where we spend our hard earned cash. Given the choice I don't mind spending mine on a bootlegging company owned by rich douchebags that are stealing from other rich douchebags, because a portion of my money will go to feeding those poor workers and GW is not my second cousin, I don't owe the company anything.

"Brand Loyalty" which is what you are clearly feeling is just another name for cash cow brainwashing. Go to college and take a class on marketing, and perhaps you'll see how ridiculously well GW has apparently marketed to you that you feel so strongly about bootleggers stealing their IP when it doesn't actually affect you personally. Don't be a sheep my friend, because I assure you both of these companies are wolves

4. You couldn't be more wrong. Bootleggers usually help in maintaining interest in a market, while they do affect sales, they do normally help with marketing. Because guess what? Bootleggers also want to actually sell their bootlegs. Very few products sell themselves.

What percentage of revenue do you actually believe that GW is losing from all this??

Companies thrive in a competitive enviorment, GW lacks competition, it lacks incentive, that's why there's so much complaining from long time supporters in respect to some of the actions taken by GW with their product. I've been in the hobby 7 years now while not nearly as long as some of you, it's definetly long enough to realize that 'hey this company really just does whatever the hell they want without worry of a back lash' simply because no other company can compete with them on a global scale.

Anything that gives them incentive to keep a happier consumer base is a GOOD thing for us consumers. Do you actually work for GW? Because if you don't then you are simply a consumer as am I, and as such we have a voice by means of the money we invest but let's face it what does a Dictator care about the 'voice' of a few thousand complaining in a population of a million? Without proper competition GW can simply ignore minor revenue losses (because there's people like yourself that will bend over backwards to shell out whatever amounts of money they ask for you) regardless of how much effort they put into improving the hobby or doing any of the stuff you claim that they do for the hobby. The term 'cash cow' was coined for a reason and to them you are exactly that, a cash cow.

5. That's not a contradiction I never said people would not buy from bootleggers if things were 20% off standard as they are on the internet. Because I clearly said there will ALWAYS be bootlegging. However their business would clearly not be as successful because less people would feel like the prices are too high to buy legit. It's simple math, it affects both sides. That's how markets work.

My point was that 20% off current retail prices IS what the retail price should actuallly be. Brings me to my point from earlier, we the consumers shouldn't have to be the ones scouring the internet for a reasonable price. Internet companies that sell GW stuff are getting their stuff FROM GW so GW still wins regardless there is still no competitive incentive for them what part of that is so hard to understand?

Imagine if there were only 1 company that you could buy toilet paper from in the whole world. Of course they'd charge a ridiculously high price for such a valuable commodity, and they also wholesale to other smaller companies that retail the toilet paper for a bit less in order to be able to compete with big daddy toilet paper company. But these smaller companies are few and far apart

It does not make it 'ok' because there's a few places where u can get the toilet paper a bit cheaper when everyone knows that the company making them is clearly overpricing it and making a killing no matter who they are selling it to. We all deserve to have a fair price be standard and that when we do go looking for those few companies that we are looking for a sweet deal and not a reasonable price only.

6. As to your last bit about me coming out to say that I want a cheaper price and don't care for the hobby. Haven't i stressed it enough that I would like to see a cheaper price on this stuff? I think that much is clear do I need to write it on a cloud for you?
As for not caring about the hobby, that's false. I own 40,000 pts worth of stuff through a total of 9 armies and thats not counting the money spent on glue, dice, codexes, rulebooks etc I'm fairly positive that i've spent more money than most in this hobby I have a great investment and i love it. But im no sheep and i'm wise enough to be aware that this is NOT cool, there is little competition and it's clearly an abusive system on the consumers.

If you see a bully beating on some poor sap, would you not speak out? Because I know I would. So to me this thread is the same scenario except people like you are making such a big deal that the bully is finally getting his, I say 'serves him right' if we consumers benefit from 2 companies going at it then we should celebrate it.

Or as my little cousin would put it 'If you like GW so much why dont you marry her?'

1. I know the rape anaology is offensive to people, I made that very point when someone else used it trivially in another thread. My point in doing so was to shock and to point out how utterly stupid your justification of immmoral and criminal behaviour. You can not say it is ok to do some bad things because every one does them and it makes life easier for you. It is not ok to do bad things by their very nature. If it was, they wouldn't be bad things. You suggesting that you have some sort of free pass to commit criminal actions because you feel badly treated is insulting.

2. If I was king of the world, unless you were stealing food to feed your family (which you wouldn't need to because I would ensure there was functioning state welfare system) then yes I would install draconian punishments for theft. I wouldn't execute people as I don't believe in it, not least because there are far better punishments but I'm sure I could think of something suitably horrible to deter people for criminal and immoral actions.

3.GW is not a monoply or an abusive business. If you have any sort of evidence of criminal business practices by GW, pass it to the relevant authorities, otherwise stop making stupid and spurious accusations. They do nothing to stifle the competition, in fact by charging 'high prices' they are actually pushing people to the competition. I am well aware of what brand loyalty is and how much GW marketing influences me (which by the way it doesn't since beyond White Dwarf and some internet rumours they don't do any). GW is the biggest because they have consistently made the best quality minature for the last 25 years, not because of some dubious business practices that you allude to.

4. I'm also curious as to why you think it is better to give your money to criminals who will expolit their workers at every opportunity possible rather than to a company which pays their workers a reasonable wage as well as giving them a number of other benefits.

5. Why do you not understand that if people buy from pirates and not GW, GW gets no money and the hobby dies?

[gendoikari87]

5. Why do you not understand that if people buy from pirates and not GW, GW gets no money and the hobby dies?

The hobby won't die, GW will come to their senses before that happens, and if they don't well then I guess your point about GW not being a monoply negats this point.

[Wildeybeast]

The hobby won't die, GW will come to their senses before that happens, and if they don't well then I guess your point about GW not being a monoply negats this point.

Assuming of course that people are only buying pirated stuff because they think the prices are too high, which is not the case for everyone and of course when GW reduce the prices in response to the pirate action a number of the pirate supporters will think 'good, if I keep buying from the pirates GW will go even further' and of course the pirsates can still undercut GW even if GW sold at cost since the pirate production method and materials are inferior and wages and overheads are mcuh cheaper and they don't invest in product development and I've said this all too many times before................so I'm done with this thread. I don't think I can stomach any more of people trying to justify morally reprehensible actions which damage our hobby. Thanks for the debates Gendo, have fun with the rest of the thread gus.

[gendoikari87]

Assuming of course that people are only buying pirated stuff because they think the prices are too high, which is not the case for everyone and of course when GW reduce the prices in response to the pirate action a number of the pirate supporters will think 'good, if I keep buying from the pirates GW will go even further' and of course the pirsates can still undercut GW even if GW sold at cost since the pirate production method and materials are inferior and wages and overheads are mcuh cheaper and they don't invest in product development and I've said this all too many times before................so I'm done with this thread. I don't think I can stomach any more of people trying to justify morally reprehensible actions which damage our hobby. Thanks for the debates Gendo, have fun with the rest of the thread gus.

Your welcome, but have SOME faith in humanity, it's only a handful of us that **** **** up for all of us.

[DarkLink]

I also have to wonder at the hate leveled at businesses, in this case GW. They created and maintain 40k. Without GW, and its continued efforts, we wouldn't have a game to play. Some of their business strategies don't seem to make too much sense, but why would you be suck a ******** that you would accuse GW, for no other real reason that creating a hobby that you chose to play, of being ************** themselves?

Same thing for most other businesses. Sure, they're trying to get your money. Money isn't everything, though, and they're trying to do it by raising your standard of living .So, wtf?

[DarkLink]

Here's an interesting story: [url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hhj3MqcZarmbxeUUIJ06m1AkKIrg?docId=e52516737 1174f369809273e718dbb71[/url]

A grad student was charged with illegally downloading and sharing 30 songs (and has admitted to doing this with even more songs). They're trying to fine him for $675,000, or $22,500 per song. Each song probably costs $0.99. It's the equivalent of stealing a couple of CDs.

Piracy might not be right, but this is absurd.

[lattd]

The question is has he shared that song? plus he hasn't not said how many other songs hes downloaded, the idea is if you hit someone so hard it might shock others into stopping.

[DarkLink]

And you think $22,500 per song for someone living off a grad student stipend is even remotely reasonable? You punish someone for their crimes, not for everyone's.

[lattd]

I didnt say it was reasonable i was saying it might explain why its high but even i think thats too much however, if he downloaded 60 + songs at 99p and allowed those songs to be shared, if 70 people download from him then it would add up but not that much.

[Chuck777]

This is a scare tactic used to intimidate the middle and lower classes into not touching pirated content. The IRS does the same thing - they ream one person to keep all us peasants in line.