Wolves First Take

[Fowlplaychiken]

Kaen: yea if you use the 4 most expensive special charactwr and 2 squads of totally tooled up wolf guard as troops, it can be done:-d

[Kanaellars]

Kaen: yea if you use the 4 most expensive special charactwr and 2 squads of totally tooled up wolf guard as troops, it can be done:-d

Be more specific.

I know that it can be done, but it isnt quite that easy.

2 squads of what? Equipped how?

[StrikerFox]

The idea that this army will be balanced by the need for expensive LR transports is stupid, since from what I have seen they can put terminators into drop pods AND have the drop pod assault rule. Do you know how many frigging drop pods you can fit in the 250 points that WOULD have been spent on a land raider?

When my army is supposed to have the same type of troop unit that is worse, has worse/contrary options, and costs more with less rules, then yes. I am not complaining that the Wolves' units are good, I just don't understand why they feel the need to be focused all of a sudden. Where is the crap, the awkward stuff that is in the SM codex that we all wonder what the hell they were thinking? The Wolves dex has NONE of that: everything in it is awesome/useful/cheap.

I think people misunderstand. I don't think it's unbeatable -- no codex is unbeatable. But this is going to be one of those armies, you know the ones...either it barely scrapes a win despite total tactical ineptitude or it utterly smashes everyone in its path and tables a different guy at your club week in and week out till eventually you have to go back to your old army just to even get a game in. I'll beat it, and before long I'll beat it consistently. But come on -- you can't tell me you are looking forward to the invariable endless Wolf vs. Wolf or Wolf vs. Guard games, or the club roster showing 4 guard armies and 5 space wolves armies, etc.

It's bad for the game to make armies so retardedly good that everyone wants to use them and not the others. Who in their right mind would use the Space Marine or Blood Angels dex to do an assault-heavy chapter now? Who would ever use the Chaos Codex, for that matter, when these guys are running around like Abaddon on steroids giving huge bonuses to the whole army full of "Chaos+1" type units?

My complaint isn't that Wolves are too good, I just want to know why the design philosophy was so wildly different when Ward shat out the garbage pile of vomit that is the current SM codex. It is full of counter-productive options -- why!? This is baffling enough but you figure "Oh it's for balance." Then along come things like the Guard codex and this new Wolves book..."Have everything be awesome! No limits! No stupid counterproductive rules you will almost never use! No making you pay more points for guys because they have a power that lets them INTENTIONALLY LOSE."

It's just gonna be a whole book of Vulkan lists, games where inconsistent favoritism lead to overjoyed wolves players and underwhelmed, angry, slighted opponents -- people who lose game's because of a guy's special power and not because the other player had superior generalship. This is what makes fighting stuff like "The Vulkan List" annoying and unsatisfying, as opposed to say fighting an Ork or Guard list where the odds are overwhelming but at least you are fighting normal guys with their own basic game mechanic pluses and minuses.

I just foresee every game against the wolves being very frustrating for opposing players. And especially moreso for we bog-standard SMs, as we struggle to get our guys to do one useful thing consistently while the Space Wolves will be out-assaulting the Blood Angels, out-Terminatoring the Dark Angels, out-specialcharactering the standard SM and out-specialruling the Black Templars.

I foresee them becoming a common and really hated army that people start not even wanting to face anymore (like Salamanders were).

Hey Emp. Didnt wanna get into this too much (tired as hell), but just wanted to say that, i see your point, but being a SW player for years, it got to a point when i was playing that i just could not keep up with other SM equivilants when they got upgrades to their codex and when the new rules came out.. only ONCE was i able to beat a DA army when they first came out with their dex. BA were still able to beat me in assault, and i NEVEr was able to beat a BT army (atleast because the guy that has them makes asskicking lists).

In any case, i still think that the vanilla marines, BT, and BA are still strong armies to reckon with, even with this new dex, which imo is a breath of fresh air for the wolves.

i know that the units are going to be balanced, a few, maybe not so much so as others.. but you gotta think too that with all the abilities that are being offered, its going to cost the SW player in points. (something im pretty much used to at this point). i really dont see how things are going to be "overpowered" as when the SW dex came out, people HATED the fact that the wolves, had things in that they could take in wargear, that the other Meq armies couldnt (save chaos 3.5). Even the fact that there was a unit which could take 3 powerfists in them at 11 models. but the downside is a BS/WS 3 unit. I remember how a guy i played was demanding how i took a terminator with a assault cannon and thunder hammer when he couldnt.

So putting things in perspective, i really think that they are just bringing the SW in line with everything else, but still kept things a little more expensive. (stuff SW players are used to anyway).

Oh and i dont know what you mean by such a ****ty SM dex... honestly... HONESTLY... i personally think its one of the best dex's out there now. Once they nerfed the CSM, this dex gives you units, abilities, and equipment options that you used to only see in armies of Chaos. To me it seemed they flipflopped the two to make SM on top. of course you wouldnt use them for an assault heavy army, because they were never purely assault heavy. ive always seen the wolves as being the best at what they do, and thats assault.

[Levitas]

At first I was pretty excited about the wolves, and still plan on doing a list because I really like the fluff. But the truth is that everyone at my store is also doing the same. 80% of them simply for the rules. 10% annoyed Chaos players who want a better deal. I swear I will see a tau or eldar player trying to use it too. Its very furry around these parts now.

But you cant blame people. Tournaments and ard boyz have rammed up the need to have a strong list. So the bandwagon is overloading. I really hope that the next dex comes quickly and is overpowering, so people will jump on that and leave true wolves fans to drink ale and have a decent scrap. i also really hate the 'counts as' rule right now.

I do think the vanilla marine codex is still great. I used them in a tournament on the weekend and actually realized i would miss sternguard. Their swiss-army ammo is useful when your not sure what your facing. Plus Lysander will still bat most of the overpriced Space Wolf HQs out the park (as a few dont have eternal warrior for starters)

I do worry what on earth they will do with Blood Angels. It will be messy i'm sure. Then players will start repainting that grey to red.

[StrikerFox]

[QUOTE=Levitas;20917 I really hope that the next dex comes quickly and is overpowering, so people will jump on that and leave true wolves fans to drink ale and have a decent scrap. i also really hate the 'counts as' rule right now..[/QUOTE]

AYE! *hands you a pint*

[Grimnar42]

Why oh why do people persit in ****canning every new dex before even a game is played give it a few months for the dust to settle before sitting in judgement.

[Havik110]

The new codex may look scary, and it is good. But like most of the new dexes will have its weak points. But there arnt many straight off the bat.

I'll be playing wolves, but with any army its good to know your own weak points.

Yes Njal is great. But make him roll dice and he'll eventually fall with the best of them. He will cause many problems though, and will no doubt be forecasting the weather in many tournaments.

Many of the special HQs dont have eternal warrior, so a hidden fist will ruin their day. They are also incredibly expensive, meaning that going over board will easily leave them outnumbered.

The assault nature of the army will also require crusaders to be truly affective. Thats another whack of points on top. Wolves also dont have access to sternguard, attack bike squadrons, ironclads and a bunch of other good stuff from the marine dex.

The strong builds will hold high numbers of greyhunters, and these will be the ones that are hard to beat.

It is a good codex, and I for one will relish using it. But its not invincible. The same talk will no doubt gather around nids and blood angels next year. People will be gawping at furious fleeting death company or nid beasts that kill everything on the table by turn 2 on a 2+. Just the way it is!

just think how scary DE are gonna be in a few decades when they get their dex...